The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
Calendar Clutter:The Corporate Cult of Wasted Time
Dive into Episode 13 of "The Elephant in the Org," titled "Calendar Clutter: The Corporate Cult of Wasted Time," where hosts Danny Gluch, Cacha Dora, and Marion Anderson tackle the pervasive issue of excessive meetings in the corporate world.
This episode reveals how an overabundance of meetings not only disrupts employee productivity but also impacts overall workplace satisfaction. The hosts explore various global perspectives on meeting culture, offering insights on effective strategies in remote work settings. They emphasize the importance of conflict and accountability in meetings and discuss the underestimated value of non-work-related interactions in building personal connections, especially in remote work environments.
Click here for full show notes.
Remote Work by Chris Dyer and Kim Shepherd can be found here.
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🎙️ About the Show
The Elephant in the Org drops new episodes every two weeks starting April 2024.
Get ready for even more fearless conversations about leadership, psychological safety, and the future of work.
🎵 Music & Production Credits
🎶 Opening and closing theme music by The Toros
🎙️ Produced by The Fearless PX
✂️ Edited by Marion Anderson
⚠️ Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations' official policy or position.
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Danny Gluch: welcome back to the elephant and the org presented by the fearless people experience. I'm Danny Glitch. I'm joined by Cacha Dora
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Danny Gluch: and Marion Anderson. Good morning. ladies.
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Danny Gluch: Let's talk about meeting culture. It's how a lot of us, especially in this sort of like thought field engage in our work right? We. We're busy. We have meetings on our calendar.
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Danny Gluch: but it's different in different organizations, and I don't think anyone really talks about it, and how impactful that is on our day to day, actual like experience as employees as workers.
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Danny Gluch: What's good? What's bad? What's psychologically safe, like. how how should how should we be doing meetings? I mean, that probably varies, though, doesn't it?
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Marion Anderson: Yeah, I think you've just asked. You know, a question the equivalent of How do we solve the problems in the Middle East? Right? It's like
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Marion Anderson: there's no immediate solution in sight, and it's humongous.
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Marion Anderson: here's the thing right.
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Marion Anderson: and I'm sure you've experienced this as well. But
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Marion Anderson: most organis most I can't speak either. Most organizations have meetings, about meetings, about meetings, about meetings right? And I know that you've been part of that. I've been part of that.
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Marion Anderson: and you're often sitting in the room thinking, Well, here's 2 h of my life. I'm never gonna get back.
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Marion Anderson: Which is.
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Marion Anderson: you know, in this day and age an absolute abomination that we're so careless with time and resource. But the other thing is that you know the the apart from the lack of productivity.
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Marion Anderson: It just makes us check out. You know the other thing that really worries me.
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Marion Anderson: and this doesn't just a Us. Thing. But I do feel like I see it here more is that it's almost like a badge of honor to be only back to back meetings with.
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Cacha Dora: We've every single one of us have said that right like in in our working relationships with each other and with the peers that we've had as well. And I think there's 2 ends of that right. I think there are people who view it as a badge of honor.
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Cacha Dora: and people who just weighs them down right where you're just like wiped out and exhausted because you're like I can't have. If you're in meetings all the time.
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Cacha Dora: How are you gonna get your work done?
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, you know what I mean, like, it's you're doing. You're doing your work while you're in the meeting. So you're only like
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Danny Gluch: 20 engaged in the actual meeting, and you're trying to do your work. But then your work's not your best like. It's I. It's a culture thing, though, right?
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Danny Gluch: You know. I'd be very interested to hear from our international listeners, cause. America has a very interesting, unique sort of like
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Danny Gluch: culture around work. You know, we're very puritanical in our roots, very much like work work. Work. Yeah, in in the Venn diagram of people who, like owned their back to back meetings is a badge and of honor. And those who are actually like it's destroying them. It's almost a perfect circle like, but that's just that's what we allow. And
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Danny Gluch: if if you say I'm just in back to backs again, and you're like trying to throw it out. There's like, I'm super important, or I'm super busy like, look at me. If that's not pushed back on and said like, Whoa! Why are you in back to backs like?
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Danny Gluch: Do you need to be in all those meetings like if there's not that cultural pushback to say like that's not good. We need to fix that if it's like a Oh, yeah. Me, too, aren't we little good worker ants like it's just gonna be awful.
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Marion Anderson: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, we've talked before about, you know our lovely friends in France, who not meetings, but they do have very strict rules about not replying to emails outside of their contract to working hours. Right? It's a similar type thing. You know it because there is that fear when you're in a a day crammed with meetings, about meetings, about meetings
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Marion Anderson: that you know you get to the end of the day, and you've not looked at one email. You've not dealt with any other fires that have happened that day. So you know, the French have been like, well, no, you're not gonna deal with that when you finish your, you're not gonna respond to emails, you're gonna go home. And you're, gonna
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Marion Anderson: you know, be a human being. culture really is something that we know is very difficult to change. You can't change culture overnight. I do see
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Marion Anderson: there are shifts in the Us. Thank God, you know, I think that the millennials and the the ex annuals, and you know the genesis coming through or not tolerate in that same crap anymore, which is great.
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Marion Anderson: But you know, it's still gonna take another 1015 years for that really to to look and feel very differently. And I don't know what that will look and feel like across all industries. Obviously, I'm talking primarily from a knowledge sector, but
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Marion Anderson: you know, that might look and feel different in other places. But getting back to the whole meeting culture thing.
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Marion Anderson: you know. Fundamentally.
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Marion Anderson: it comes from the absolute core root of the very base of the foundations of the culture of that organization. Right? You know, as time valued lot of companies will say, we value time. Right?
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Marion Anderson: You've just had. If you've never questioned how you're using time. Do you actually value time? Right? And let's be clear, though that's not measured in time. And that's using time. Right? So then, I think like we talk about meetings right in the culture of meetings. And like my favorite kind of meeting is where you're collaborating with someone where you're actually working together on something, and because
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Cacha Dora: in the remote landscape, that's how you do it, right? Like you're not gonna be in a conference room or side by side with someone at a desk
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Cacha Dora: you collaborating is on a zoom call, or a teams meeting, or something like that. But at the end of it, why do you feel good about that meeting, cause you produce something because you got your thoughts out. Whatever whatever kind of project you were in like, Marion said earlier. Right? We're in a thought space. So sometimes a meeting is literally just bouncing ideas off each other to get to the work that you have to do, and other times.
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Cacha Dora: And when you have those kind of meetings like that's the meeting that I that's the meeting I want a meeting with intent right? A meeting with a purpose. You see it on your calendar, and you're like sweet. I'm excited to to log into that meeting. Yes, exactly. But when you have that meeting that says, like, X prep.
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Cacha Dora: whatever the subject is right. And you're like.
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Cacha Dora: Okay, I'm literally going to be hearing everyone else talk. This could have been an email.
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Cacha Dora: Oh, I mean, that's everyone says that. Oh, this meeting could have been an email. But then they don't send the email like, just just send the email. Well, and II do think it's a double edged sword to be very honest sometimes, because sometimes the content you have to cover in the it could just be an email. The email would be so long that you'd really not want to read it. So I do. I do see way. Sometimes it's one of those things where it could be better. But we have big arc. We talk about culture
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Cacha Dora: that inherently means you're gonna get an entire mishmash of personality and and different kinds of combinations of how people take in information and wanna receive it, and that all applies to your meetings right? So it's not just putting on an agenda. An agenda isn't like, we're gonna talk about this this and this cool. But it's not everything. And so like
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Cacha Dora: I I'm just being very honest, like I for me, collaborative meetings are the the ones that I love. But Danny Mirren, I'm super curious from your Guises perspective. How?
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Cacha Dora: How would you want to approach getting out of the meetings for meetings and into those meetings that actually have the intent that we look forward to. I'd love to hear from you guys how you would want to approach it.
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Danny Gluch: Well. I think that some of those meetings
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Danny Gluch: they they become about other meetings, because people are uncomfortable.
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Danny Gluch: like taking accountability, standing up and really putting it out there and saying like, this is just going to get done now.
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Danny Gluch: They they would rather kick that down the road, because once something has to just like this is what we're doing. Like that action. That's when all of a sudden they get to be like, Oh, this either worked or it didn't. And someone's gonna be held accountable like.
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Danny Gluch: II do think that there is a bit of dodginess in the like. We're just gonna keep talking about this as opposed to putting pen to paper.
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Danny Gluch: And you know me. I love a good like draft revision, input feedback redraft revision, like phase of a project.
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Danny Gluch: But like at some point we need to like
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Danny Gluch: commit, you know, and, like Amazon, talks about like the Oh, disagree and commit kind of a thing. But like
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Danny Gluch: that, that, whatever like, I think that's a kind of a toxic culture bit but like the commitment part like, yes, I think there needs to be
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Danny Gluch: appoint in meetings. And this is where, like good team leadership or just leadership in general comes up of. Okay, we've talked enough.
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Danny Gluch: Let's do
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Danny Gluch: right like now, it's time to turn our thought planning into collaboration.
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Danny Gluch: Let's start saying, you're doing this. You're doing that, or we're doing this together. Let's do instead of the like.
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Danny Gluch: Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk great. You know, we're gonna have a meeting to think about, maybe possibly considering talking about having a meeting and like. Oh.
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Danny Gluch: like we just, we just need to put it out there and say, I'm owning this. It's going to be done by this time. Who wants to work with me on it?
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Cacha Dora: I love, I love that. I feel like you saying that just made me think of like that explains why we all get on so well, cause every single one of us is very much like a go getter and a doer of like we get to a point, and we just want to take action like great. What are we doing next right. Marion says that to us all the time when we're talking about stuff and planning things for these episodes. Great. So what's next? Right? So you say that I was like I was hearing Mary into my head.
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Cacha Dora: But, Marion, how about you? What are your thoughts on that?
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Marion Anderson: I've got lots of thoughts as per usual surprise. You know one of the one of the best things one of the most kind of revealing things that that I was exposed to over this year was really good conversations with our good friend Chris Dyer, and actually using his book.
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Marion Anderson: It's a bit bloody. It's bloody, it's bloody, but it says remote work.
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Marion Anderson: is part of the reason for my my Phd research, because, you know, he's written an incredible book about remote work, and you know his, his
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Marion Anderson: story of how he took his business from being in person to being fully remote. And this is like 2,008. This is not recent, right? So this is someone who's been kind of trail blazing. And you know, in one of our conversations he talked a lot about meetings, and he realized just how unproductive meetings were and what a waste of time that they were!
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Marion Anderson: And they completely, you know, re-imagined how they conducted meetings, and one of the important things that he told me was he had a an epiphany when he I can't remember. I can't remember the exact scenario, but he realized that when you invite people to a party like if if someone says to you here, I'm inviting you to a birthday party.
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Marion Anderson: you kinda know what to expect. You know, you're gonna turn up. You know, you're gonna take a gift, you know. There's probably gonna be food. There's probably going to be games or music, and then there'll be a cake, and you'll sing Happy birthday. And generally, once that's done, it's adios, right? I'm out, and so you know what's expected of you? And and his reflection was.
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Marion Anderson: If you don't know what's expected of you, how do you know how to kind of play the game in the meeting and and make it the most productive. Right again. A birthday party for kids, Danny.
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Marion Anderson: 2 h, maybe. You know they come. They play. They have some cake, and then they'll go home right? So so he took that kind of
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Marion Anderson: you know, he took that knowledge and applied it to business, and what they did was created very specific types of meetings. And so when you were invited to this meeting, you knew by the name of it that it was this type of meeting. It would last this long. It would be facilitated in this way, and what the clear expectations were.
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Marion Anderson: and it sounds so simple, but actually like like
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Marion Anderson: revolutionary right? We'll put the details of that book in the show notes, because it actually is an incredible read. And it's got some amazing insights. But
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Marion Anderson: there's lots of ways that you can make meetings much more
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Danny Gluch: psychologically safe because everybody's clear what their part is and and that people will have the confidence to know that it's not a waste of time. So yeah, and that's that's so important. II was talking with a friend who does consulting work for organizations. Steven Chapman shout out.
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Danny Gluch: Friend of the pod, we'll have to get him on at some point.
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Danny Gluch: But he was talking about. And I think this plays into the psychological safety bit, because psychological safety doesn't mean like happy good. Everybody's always positive right? He was saying that a meeting should not get scheduled. If there's not going to be conflict
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Danny Gluch: interesting, he said. Even in the standups, right? The the the engineering sort of like agile methodology, of daily standups. Here's what I'm doing.
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Danny Gluch: The conflict is we're all working on this project. Here's where I'm at. I'm behind. I need help right there. There's some of that like, oh, I'm this is just honest with like, we need to tell each other where we are and ask for help super psychologically safe when it's done. Well, right. Those those meetings, those agile standups, go awful
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Danny Gluch: if people aren't honest. If they're like, Oh, yeah, this I'm on. I'm on schedule, but they're not on schedule like the whole, like project starts to fall apart similarly, like in the knowledge work. If we're talking about.
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Danny Gluch: you know. Hey? Here's a strategy like, or or strategic options for us to take as an organization like. and if you just let the sort of loudest person have the floor and talk, talk, talk, and everyone else is like, you know, whatever they're not engaged like, there isn't that actual tension and conflict
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Danny Gluch: it ends up. Nothing happens right? Like you. You need that like to you. If you're not trying to solve that, if you're not willing to get in and take ownership of
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Danny Gluch: how you think things should be. Then like you shouldn't be in the meeting.
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Marion Anderson: If if you can't do that, there's a fundamental flaw with your organization's
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Danny Gluch: E exactly. It needs to be like psychologically safe to where you can be like Whoa, no, we can't do that. Here's why, or or at least I disagree and think that would be a bad one. Let's actually we're meeting. Let's take this time to like.
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Danny Gluch: put that out. I think too often. People are like, Oh, this is bad, but I'm not gonna say anything because of like.
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Danny Gluch: you know, there, there's there's a little bit of a performativity right? Or or you've got like a power dynamic that, you know, like is unsavory, unsafe, right? And and sometimes
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Cacha Dora: sometimes and this is a a negative statement. But I'm going to say it, anyway. Ding it sometimes you know that you what you have to say isn't going to be heard anyway, so save your breath.
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Cacha Dora: And those are all examples of not psychological safety. Exactly right like these are, unfortunately, that lack of psychological safety
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Cacha Dora: in situations where there needs to be a piv, a change and augmentation. When you don't have that.
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Cacha Dora: then things just continue, not only where they're going, but typically not in an upward trajectory, for whatever it is, right, cause if it's a bad idea, and then it gets rolled out to the org. Now, you've got a whole other problem that's happening, or you're gonna roll it out to your team. Maybe not as big as your whole organization. But like, if it's going out to a team, or it's this initiative that really should have been really, really Redone. And you know. But again,
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Cacha Dora: power dynamics are tricky and not all organizations actually build in psychological safety in the context of taking the risk. To say something isn't the way that it should be like. How many times, Kasha, were we working on projects together, and it got
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Danny Gluch: it got tense. We were not in agreement. It was like
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Danny Gluch: total opposite. And I'm just like frustrated being there and being frustrated with each other and
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Danny Gluch: working through it like, that's those are productive meetings. They are. Yeah, you you just saying your thing and me going? Oh, no, that's bad.
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Danny Gluch: And then not saying anything. That's an unproductive meeting like we, we just shouldn't have had that call.
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Danny Gluch: And I think that's part of the problem is, people aren't willing to see meetings as this like
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Danny Gluch: this is a place to battle things out. But, like in a good way, like, we're all on the same team. We're all on the same like we have the same goals, or at least we should be
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Marion Anderson: Mary Laurie. What were you gonna say I am. I'm just thinking about it being in a healthy way. You know I'm I'm probably not a proponent of using language like conflict in battle, because it doesn't set the right tone, but I understand the context of it.
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Marion Anderson: But again, it really goes back to that understanding of what are the roles and responsibilities within the meeting context, right? And which, again, going back to that birthday party analogy, just really kind of clicked with me. So
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Marion Anderson: fundamentally, the organization at a very base level needs to determine this in this company aligning with our values. This is how we conduct meetings, and if you don't conduct meetings, then you're not like this. Then you're not working within
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Marion Anderson: our values. And and that's a conversation right? And it's not meant to feel like a nanny state. But it is meant to feel like, you know, a collegial and safe environment where everybody knows what's expected. And you know there's no nasty surprises, because the one thing that would
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Marion Anderson: unhinge all of the great work
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Marion Anderson: that Co, the collective put into creating psychological safety is one rogue player going off and having a tantrum. And you know, when a a leadership meeting and throwing their cup against the wall, whatever crap they do right, and and that just completely blows up all of the work that's going into it. So it has to be something that.
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Marion Anderson: and
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Marion Anderson: that you're really going to commit to. In fact, a great line from one of my one of my favorite books. It's kind of like getting a tattoo on your face. You want to be committed right? So
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Marion Anderson: that's it. You you. If you're gonna do it, do it right. And and you can't half asset.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, meetings are meet. It's one of those things right at the end of the day. Meetings are an essential part of work life. You're going to have meetings. You're gonna be in meetings that you really don't wanna be in, and you'd rather be in bed sleeping and not getting called into work for and you're gonna have meetings that you look forward to, and I think one of the healthiest things for teams to also consider. And we've talked a lot about like, you know the intent of the meeting, and like, when you want to attend the meeting.
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Cacha Dora: and like it's when it's productive when there's intent. All of those things are really like that's honestly the best way to have a meeting.
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Cacha Dora: But I also want to just take a moment to talk about the importance of the meeting structure and culture in the remote workspace, because it's so
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Cacha Dora: so much more important, because it's the only way you have to work and get to know the people that you work with. It's it's it's not like in days of yore, where you just knocked on someone's door. And so let's go to the water cooler. It's what it looks like on cartoons. Okay.
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Danny Gluch: university. Sometimes we didn't have a water cooler. But we
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Cacha Dora: yeah, just knock on someone's office. It's fun. See? I'm a child. I would be like, knock on someone's doors
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Danny Gluch: that I think a lot, you know. You see it on on social media and stuff. Oh, let's double click into that. Let's like all that language that is so like performative. I think. Really.
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Danny Gluch: it seems so inauthentic that I think it really shuts down that ability to connect to people because it's like, I'm not connecting to Kasia. I'm connecting to this like
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Danny Gluch: fake corporate like
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Danny Gluch: it. It almost feels like you're an AI generated like that. I'm interacting with. Like
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Danny Gluch: if we allow that in our meetings and like the only way we can connect as people is through meetings, because we're all remote like, but I can't connect to you because you feel like
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Danny Gluch: the whatever like, you're playing a part as opposed to being authentic. Then we're not actually connecting right. And and now our meetings are
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Danny Gluch: like the opposite of building relationships. I don't know if that's where you were going, but like that sparked in me just like
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Danny Gluch: how awful that sort of performance is
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Cacha Dora: to to just culture. In general.
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Cacha Dora: It's natural. It happens when you hear it all the time it it is, but it's just like, you know, it's very, very Pavlovian kind of situation there, but actually talking about like we were talking about like work meetings in the context of. You know you've got projects. You're being informed of things. You're actually getting work done. But the meeting on the other side right? That getting to know you meeting where you're you're setting aside time to have a meeting
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Cacha Dora: where you're not really having a meeting.
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Cacha Dora: You're having the kind of hangout time that you would have had in an office the stuff and things where you have the ability of, say, you know, like, normally like.
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Cacha Dora: I think I don't remember where right. But the stats saying that people working from home people were more productive working at home because they didn't have the distractions that they had in the office. All those side conversations, all of those like we're gonna take a break. But it's really gonna be a break. And, like all of these things, happen in the office. And so how do you still get that
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Cacha Dora: that break of like, I just wanna interact with people you know, like in when the pandemic started. I know that lots of companies were doing virtual happy hours, or people were just bringing their their coffee and like, and maybe other things. At the end of the day, depending on on how people were treating the concept of a happy hour. But that's how people were still staying connected.
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Cacha Dora: And so I don't think that businesses do a good job in the remote and or even hybrid space where they're giving the opportunity to leverage a meeting to not be a meeting.
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Cacha Dora: and I think it's important. That's where I was actually going with it, Danny. And it's something that you know, in our previous work life. We all did a really great job at.
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Cacha Dora: but that's there's so much intentionality behind it, and so much willingness to actually put something on the calendar that isn't going to make the company money.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: II think that's a a important part of it is the acknowledgement of this is not actually producing anything
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Danny Gluch: but what it is doing.
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Danny Gluch: And you know, I there's all these engagement surveys and engagements down. Yeah, you know what
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Danny Gluch: this is, taking time to make sure that the people who work at your company
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Danny Gluch: have a connection to the people they work with. so that they want to log in at 8 in the morning.
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Danny Gluch: so that they don't say I would just rather sleep or do anything other than show up to work. It's oh, wow! I'm gonna have a call with Kylie, with Pauline, with, you know, like
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Danny Gluch: Colin, right? Like, I'm looking forward to all of these meetings today because I took the time to connect with them in non productive time, like
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Danny Gluch: happy people. Wha what? What's our saying? Happy people are equals, productive equals, something like that right? But you need that. You need them to be happy.
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Marion Anderson: Hmm. yeah, I mean.
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Marion Anderson: at the end of the day, right? It's a basic human need that we need to have a sense of connection
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Marion Anderson: to those around us. Right? It's just
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Marion Anderson: basic primal visceral need. So
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Marion Anderson: we have to be, you know, switched on to the fact that in order to create that
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Marion Anderson: joyful psychologically safe. You know, Utopia within an organizational culture, we have to allow that time to be invested for that bonding and that bonding isn't necessarily, you know. Hey? Let's everyone do an assault. Core. Say, you know, it's not that kind of crap, but it's like
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Marion Anderson: one of the other great things that I'd learned from from Chris's book was.
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Marion Anderson: they actually realized that 1 one to one meetings between manager and you know, employee were kind of a waste of time, unless it was obviously a specific deal developmental conversation. So they got rid of one to one's, and instead, what they did was they would have group meetings, and they were called, I think we're called bonding.
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Marion Anderson: And basically they would go around the group where they would just provide that update, and they would share anything that was challenging anything that they needed support with. And what they actually created was a peer to peer coaching mechanism quite organically, because by listening to everyone else's work, and where their challenges, where everyone else was able to lean in and give support and guide and ask questions and stuff.
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Marion Anderson: and one of the most powerful things out of all of that was that the leader would always speak last, because if the leader speaks first.
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Marion Anderson: Employees that report to them are more likely to try and mirror them or see things to please them, or whatever that might be. So they, they integrated that. And what they found was the establishment of a much more psychologically safe meeting culture. And, you know, stronger peer relations. And actually, they were more productive, because whenever someone was either, maybe having some kind of personal problem that the team maybe had an understanding of.
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Marion Anderson: they were able to jump in and support where it is. If they didn't have that they would never have known, and that person could have struggled on so
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Marion Anderson: again. There's lots of really powerful things that can be done that are really simple.
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Marion Anderson: that can make the world of difference.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, absolutely. And II think you really nailed it like that. That bonding like, Hey, we're here together to be. We're a team team, bonding and team bonding is not
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Danny Gluch: trust falls and and nonsense like that. And some of that stuff like still happens, it does. And and sometimes in really crazy ways. I that there was a whole thing with the Panda express group that ha! They got in big trouble. Tried to do one of these team bonding things with their managers.
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Danny Gluch: That's a whole other discussion. But like.
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Danny Gluch: how is it that you feel connected?
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Danny Gluch: Right? What? How is it that you feel that you you guys on a team get to support one another like, that's the stuff that matters. Yeah.
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Marion Anderson: it is, without a doubt.
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Marion Anderson: At the end of the day you spend a third of your life
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Marion Anderson: at work working wherever that location might be. You want to enjoy it. You want to get
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Marion Anderson: stuff out of it and not just a salary. You know, we talk about psychological contracts. Right? That psychological contract I work for you. You pay me money, but it runs deeper than that. I want to get a sense of accomplishment and achievement and enjoyment and all of those things. And if I'm not getting that.
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Marion Anderson: then my psychological contract is gonna win and it then it just becomes, you know, fragile, and it just takes one thing for it to smash. And as we know, once you smash that psychological contract, there's no going back, it's not repatable. So you know all of these things.
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Marion Anderson: Strengthen that, and help retention and and all the other things that that can be problematic and cost money. If we don't get it right. So it's just a no brainer right? Just do it, just do it.
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Cacha Dora: So we had better at meetings. That's more of the story kids get better.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, meetings can be good, and they can be 100%.
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Danny Gluch: And II think it plays into the the overall right? Like, how we approach work. And
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Danny Gluch: one of the things that just kept ringing in my ears was. if we're just here to fill a seat for 40 h. Then we don't even really care if
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Danny Gluch: if we're not like there. It it's what's the cultural mindset? Oh, it's almost the like, hey? You're you get more work done if you have a 4 day work week, because, you know, like I can't waste my time. I'm only here for 32 HI can't take that meeting that hour meeting. We're we're gonna do it in 15 min. Right? You, you just have this mindset of being more efficient. Effective? Right?
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, it's amazing how, how how closely you actually will hold to your boundaries
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Cacha Dora: when you know that you are limited in in something right? And versus the like. You don't want to, but you're gonna begrudgingly accept whatever that invitation is. And I think ultimately, when you're looking at the corporate meeting culture
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Cacha Dora: we're obviously leaning in from the context of the American corporate meeting culture.
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Cacha Dora: you know, I think what it really comes down to is it shouldn't be the badge of honor to have your whole calendar be full of meetings. Your badge of honor should be. How proud you are in the work that you're completing. That should be where your badge of honor truly lies.
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Danny Gluch: Wise words, Kasha, wise words.
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Danny Gluch: We know what we know, what we're gonna clip for, the social media content on that one. Thanks. Thanks everyone for listening. You can reach us at elephant.
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at the fearless px.com.
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Danny Gluch: Please remember to like follow, subscribe, leave some reviews. You know what? If someone gives us a 5 star review and and write something, I'm gonna read it on one of the podcasts because that seems fun. So there's your challenge, everybody.
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Danny Gluch: We'll be back next week.
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Danny Gluch: Thank you. Everyone have a good night day morning. I don't know when people listen to this.
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please stop the recording.
