The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
The Strategic Leap: HR's Escape from Admin Alcatraz with Josie Batres
In this thought-provoking episode of "The Elephant in the Org," hosts Danny, Cacha, and Marion are joined by HR strategist Josie Batres to explore the transformation of HR from a traditional, checkbox-oriented function to a strategic partner within the business. Josie shares her extensive experience and insights into how HR can influence organizational culture, drive employee engagement, and contribute to business strategy beyond administrative tasks.
What You'll Learn in This Episode:
- The limitations of traditional HR practices focused solely on compliance and administration.
- How HR professionals can evolve their roles to become strategic partners in their organizations.
- The impact of technology and AI on reshaping HR practices for efficiency and strategic value.
- Strategies for fostering a people-centric culture that prioritizes employee well-being and diversity.
- Practical advice for HR professionals looking to adapt to the changing business landscape and prepare for the future of work.
With her background in transforming HR functions, Josie Batres offers a fresh perspective on building a more dynamic and impactful HR department that aligns with modern business needs.
You can connect with Josie Batres on LinkedIn for more insights.
Click here for complete show notes.
Connect with Us:
- Follow The Fearless PX on Linkedin at The Fearless PX
- Visit our website for more content and updates: https://www.thefearlesspx.com/
- Reach out to Marion, Cacha, and Danny at elephant@thefearlessp.com
- You can find all episodes of The Elephant in the Org here.
We encourage you to subscribe and leave a review if you found this episode enlightening!
From April 2024, all new episodes of The Elephant In the Org will be posted bi-weekly.
Music Credits:
Opening and closing theme by The Toros.
Production Credits:
Produced by The Fearless PX, Edited by Marion Anderson.
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are exclusively those of the hosts and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations’ official policy or position.
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Danny Gluch: Today's elephant in the org is check boxes in Hr. And their dysfunction. Now, to be clear, like, there's a lot of administrative stuff that Hr. Has to do. And there's a lot of check boxes, and we're really passionate about those things being being done and being done. Well. But there's. There's also a a reliance and a
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Danny Gluch: a pattern of check. Boxes are all we do and all we need to do. And and that's not functioning right. That's dysfunctioning. We need to evolve. We need to
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to get beyond the checkboxes. So
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Danny Gluch: let let's talk about these check boxes right? Whether it's it's compliance or or training, or just Hey, we've done it. We can move on versus something that's gonna be effective and and having training or learning, that is, you know, moving organizations forward.
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Danny Gluch: Wh, why, why are we so obsessed with check boxes? And instead of looking at what's most effective?
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Josie Batres: Hi, so you know, II think, check boxes. So let me just be clear. You know I always start out by saying, and having this comparison just like finance, has an administrative arm which is accounting.
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I say that chief People officer has an administrative arm, which is Hr operations
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Josie Batres: and Hr operations obviously is, you know, housing payroll housing, other administrative compliance. Related processes and many other things. That it's main focus is basically delivering a shared service model right to the organization.
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Josie Batres: So that's II say, that's one pillar under the Cpo. Or chief people officer.
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Josie Batres: that may or may may be very box, you know. Check the box driven, and and it has an orientation of of that to be fully optimized. I think I wanna be able to distinguish is that
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Josie Batres: area with an HR, which we probably traditionally call the HR. Business partner and the program management behind that role.
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Josie Batres: And it's heavily invested. You know, in in time and resources in delivering programs that pretty much have a cyclical cadence.
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Josie Batres: And I think what we're trying to say is some of these programs. And they're needed. Obviously. And there's some good programs. And there's some programs that probably we we there, you know they're not. We. We question their their utility in the, in the organization.
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Josie Batres: What I actually want to distinguish is creating an activity that goes beyond the programs
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Josie Batres: and kind of the crux of of of of the
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Josie Batres: of the check the boxes. We need to move away from the check the box and create an opportunity to build a business-minded process
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Josie Batres: that business challenges in a systemic way. So let's start there.
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Marion: I don't fancy our chances. But yeah, I've got a question here, because obviously, you know, this is a very, it's very topical at the moment. I think the rise of the CPU is something that's very heavily focused on business press, and certainly an Hr. Press. There is
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Marion: a real neat for exceptional
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Marion: business minded people focus leaders, because I think it's no big secret that that really is the way to take a business forward and a really cohesive. And people minded direction.
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Marion: The challenge, though, is, is that we do still have this
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Marion: component of old school mentality where it is, you know, check boxes, and it is the very sort of regular, as you see, cadence of pattern of employee life cycle activities that
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Marion: I think we've talked to another podcast episodes. A lot of them are not that? Well, you know, functioning themselves, they don't work that well, performance management is a great example. So
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Marion: how are we gonna push this forward? How are we gonna really break the mold here to get this moving forward to take this momentum, this cut in of the new CPU, or that it's not really new. But how are we gonna sweep everyone else up in that momentum and move all forward.
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Josie Batres: That that's that's a great question. So
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Josie Batres: the II say that there is a a reset of of the role in many ways. I think that trying to
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Josie Batres: generate a program or a list of programs that may or may not be aligned to the business. May or may not be responding to employee needs
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Josie Batres: may or may not be addressing chronic leadership concerns that every organization has. And so I think the CPU need to step takes it. They need to take a step back and and kind of inventory. What is this driving for us is this thing that the business challenges that we have as a high growth organization
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Josie Batres: because there's pressure on revenue, there's pressure on performance. And do we leave the programs to do what they need to do from a hygiene standpoint.
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Josie Batres: But do I then create this other opportunity for me to actually understand the business? Get in front of the business
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Josie Batres: and address some of these chronic challenges one team at a time, and this is where I think it's going to be interesting. You know how we always traditionally say finances the language of business. Well, II think that the modern chief people officer is gonna define a new business language.
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Josie Batres: And and most definitely, I also think that this opportunity for chief people officers really to become a chief of staff in many ways
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Josie Batres: for the leadership team. And it's in that space in that sphere where they're actually gonna address systemic issues around business decisions that don't hire diverse talent business decisions that don't clarify strategy for teams.
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Josie Batres: And the lack of really leadership. Right? A cohesive leadership model, a one road opportunity for leaders to really embark on a leadership journey
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Josie Batres: with a shared framework. So I think that it's a loaded answer. But there's a graduation step. I want to call it a graduation step for for chief people, officers.
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Danny Gluch: hygiene
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Danny Gluch: right? The the there are certain things that you you do just because it it's your normal maintenance. Right? You just you just have to brush your teeth. Floss. Right, eat broccoli go for walks. But then there's there's more beyond that, right? And I think that's what you're really getting at. And finding that language, finding the the analogies that are gonna really communicate that
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Danny Gluch: organizationally is really, it's it's tough.
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Danny Gluch: And and I'm not sure
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Danny Gluch: I I'm not sure old language is gonna do it. And that's that's a problem.
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Josie Batres: It's it's a new language, right? It's a new business language. And that business language looks at what are our business challenges right? And I think that's where the Cpo creates a discovery process
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Josie Batres: right across the leadership team and addresses the language around. What is our process to define and clarify. Strategy addresses language around. What are the leadership, effectiveness, framework?
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Josie Batres: That's going to drive engagement for our organization? What's unique for us.
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Josie Batres: And so that is sort of the personalized mindset that a Cpo can be sort of the architect of that process and building building that bill building that new business language in framework.
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Marion: I love the notion of Chief of Staff because I think that that happens organically in many ways. Naturally, because to be effective. You have to build a hell of a lot of trust with your, you know, CEO, and rest of the C-suite and through the cultivation of that trust comes the opportunity to shape and direct and things like that. If you're in the right environment and you have that capability.
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Marion: And we know that, you know, if you look at a President's Chief of Staff and and the White House, we know that they're really the force behind a lot, the decision making and and making things happen. So I think that it's a really powerful notion. I think that would also naive to think that. You know.
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Marion: we're
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Marion: that's an easy shift to make. As you see, it's a graduation step, because it's that's not gonna happen overnight, because if we're if we're really honest, we still have a lot of bad Pr, we still have a lot of baggage, and quite frankly, I think
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Marion: there's a divide in our in our ranks of those who are embracing that modern way that understands business, that are, you know, really leveling up with your knowledge to can articulate the why sales to vote in the how I talk about that. Well,
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Marion: And then we maybe have other practitioners who haven't had those opportunities. They've maybe not been exposed to that they've maybe worked in organizations at a bit more old school and haven't had an opportunity to evolve in that direction.
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Marion: So all of that together does create, you know, disparity and and imbalance. How are we gonna make that move? You know, as a as a population of people, professionals? How are we gonna help close that divide and make that move.
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Marion: get to that place of elevation cause. Really, we know that that's weird, that the entire function needs to be, but II find it hard to envisage the how for for the for the mainstream.
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Josie Batres: So there's our conversation to be had between the CEO and the Cpo. And it should start at the interview right? You. You shouldn't be surprised. There shouldn't be very little surprise as to how the CPU is positioned.
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Josie Batres: and
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Josie Batres: you know pretty much. You know, that that partnership is is pretty much set. But I think once you've taken a role and you're in a role where you've been, you know.
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Josie Batres: comfortable. Let's just say, you know, establishing a suite of programs and everything according to plan. And your cyclically, you know, rolling things out, you know, in this annual cycle, and the C suite understands what's happening, you know, in the summer and and in the winter II think there's an opportunity to really rethink on what society challenges we're facing. And
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Josie Batres: it's delusional not to think that some of these challenges don't exist internally. So I think, making the case about
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Josie Batres: really creating an organizational space where transformation can't be avoided anymore in this role. And there needs to be a sense of elevation around the framework that we're using to build engagement and leadership.
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Josie Batres: So for me, at the end of the day, I think culture is very important. It's the central asset.
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Josie Batres: But wh what gives the Cpo. Or the chief people? Officer? Leverage is the opportunity to tell the CEO. You know I can build cohesion with your leadership team. But I can. Also, I can also introduce organizational health
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Josie Batres: practices that are gonna drive engagement. Naturally, they're gonna like piece of leadership framework for the organization.
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Josie Batres: So they're hard conversations.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, I mean, and and what CEO would be like, I don't really want that built like, I don't want you to build in these frameworks and processes and culture that's going to drive engagement and productivity. And all these things they're they're they're all going to say. Yes, I want that.
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Danny Gluch: but I feel, and and this is both like anecdotally. And and you know I've I've read some articles that while they say they want that
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Danny Gluch: they? They don't go the whole way, and they end up taking this big like Dei initiative or psychological safety initiative that that would. You know that needs to be more than just a training. It needs to be a a really deep, impactful cultural shift and change.
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Danny Gluch: And then they say, yeah, but we only really have time, or I really only want to invest in. You know, this
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Danny Gluch: 2, 1 h training sessions on it. And I know we don't wanna make these
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Danny Gluch: deeper changes right? They say they want, and they're not willing to invest in it. They they kind of want the checkbox.
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Danny Gluch: and and I hear you saying that, like you need to communicate that.
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Danny Gluch: that it can't just be this this little bit. It can't just be for show. It can't just be for language like, if if you give me the reins, I can.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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actual change
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Danny Gluch: that's going to be paid you. You have to really be convincing right? Rhetorically and and logically, like, you know, make an argument for why.
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Danny Gluch: what you're doing can't just be surface level. right? You really need to be in a position to have deep, deep impact on the organization.
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Danny Gluch: That's
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Danny Gluch: that's a lot of trust. That's a lot of. you know, getting someone who who might not understand how that even works right. They they they don't learn about that at most. Mba programs. Right? It it takes.
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Danny Gluch: I don't know, I'm sure even a lot of Cpos don't have like that deep
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Danny Gluch: you know. Sherm Sherm gets you part of the way, but it doesn't get you all the way there. Not everyone has Masters or Ph. Ds. You know they're they're learning from the school of hard knocks than from Carol and Susan, who came before them.
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Danny Gluch: Right? It's it's really asking a lot. And I think we have to be
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Cacha Dora: be willing to go there. What you're pointing out, Danny. I think what you're pointing out. Danny, too, is one of the big struggles that Cpos face right is
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Cacha Dora: the the line between performative initiatives and organizational change right? And and we all have, like everyone, right. Everyone's got our our dreams and our wishes and our goals, and they all sound really great. And you know, everyone sets that New Year's resolution to go to the Gym. X. Amount of times right? But, like, how long do those resolutions last, and a lot of times with these initiatives.
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Cacha Dora: I think what happens to a lot of the C-suite, not just our, our our Cpos or our Ceos, but everyone within that realm when they start hearing feedback from people about what they liked or what they didn't like, they'll they tend to focus on what people didn't like right? And a lot of times. These initiatives
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Cacha Dora: we all know people are averse to change, not everyone, obviously, but like, there's a lot of people organizationally who
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Cacha Dora: who don't like change. Who don't like to feel a mental shift or a mental challenge.
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Cacha Dora: Vic makes them question things not outside outside of their role, right? Like where it's it's really about themselves or something like that. And a lot of this organizational change can make people question things and and give that constructive feedback. And sometimes that sliding scale of
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Cacha Dora: we're gonna change this because it's the right thing to do might stop because of that feedback. And then to the people who were excited about it. It looks performative. And then to the people who were tense
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Cacha Dora: about it, there's relief.
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Cacha Dora: and that's such a struggle for a Cpo to have to be that one.
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Josie Batres: that one person to balance it. That's a lot on someone's shoulders. It is, it is. And I think that the
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Josie Batres: issue is, if we don't address some of these and believe me, these are not the the business challenges and the people. Challenges
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Josie Batres: are definitely
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Josie Batres: they exist. You know there's no way that you can. You know you. You can't say they don't. You know. There's chronic, you know, low engagement, chronic leadership. You know, issues that we have across the organization. And
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Josie Batres: I think what I'm saying is is that
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Josie Batres: there, if there is no common language, first and foremost for us to understand what challenges, and I think the Cpo can say, Hey, I can step outside in doing what I usually do day to day and bring a common language in a set of things that can help us guide us through the process of discovering
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Josie Batres: what does what does great look like? You know? What? What are the challenges that we're going to decide to to face.
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Josie Batres: you know, on year one that are, you know, imperative for us to hit revenue. So II think it's it's not a one and done. And it's not like this massive revolutionary process. It's, you know, it's these little incremental changes that are asking questions about the way things get done in the organization.
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Josie Batres: And I,
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Josie Batres: you know, it's sort of like a a gradual step process that appreciate discovery of business challenges.
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Marion: I think you're right. You know that th it really is nothing more scientific than, as you see, making those little incremental changes. It's not being stealth as such, although we do do a lot of that. We talk about hype in the medicine and save the treat, don't we? But
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Marion: it's it's not about that. It is about making sustainable change, and the only way to do that is in small tunks every time guaranteed there's some large endeavor to make some large
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Marion: and shift it, especially something that touches culture. As we said in our chat with Paula broke. Well, a few weeks ago, it goes test up right? It doesn't work, it doesn't stick. People are are uncomfortable with it. It can appear performative to cautious point. So you know, I think that you're definitely right there. II think one of the other things I just wanna touch back on mentioned them a minute ago is going back to those
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Marion: you know, relationships in the C-suite and and building that commonality, that common language, that that uniformity, that union, I guess, with the rest of the c suite, because
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Marion: I'm not quite sure what what they do. The average is here, but you know, I think it's safe to see that we know that in many businesses, in many types of organizations.
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Marion: The Hr Chi, o Cpo, you know, whatever they're called
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Marion: can often be
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Marion: I think probably the most challenging role in the C suite just in terms of getting buy in building, trust, building confidence and
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Marion: for organizations that want to make those incremental changes and are bringing in these high caliber visionary Cpos that really do understand how to do that. But then they're being met with, maybe some resistance. And the leadership team and and lack of understanding, or whatever that might be. So, Jose, what would you see is the best kind of
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Marion: way to approach that, and and how to try to really build that trust and then develop that that commonality amongst your Cp, your C-spee peers.
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Josie Batres: I immediately say, don't don't lead with programs, you know, don't lead with program.
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Josie Batres: you know. Don't talk about Hr programs. Don't talk about D and I, you know, even though that conversation, you know will take place. I think the important part here is that there is a business narrative that is missing from the Cpo
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Josie Batres: per perception of how they lead. And so, if the Cpo. Enters a conversation with an understanding of their market and understanding of their product, their strategy, their financials. You know, if if a Ce. C Cpo understands even the most minimal thing around year end compensation, and how that process is budgeted and cycles and
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Josie Batres: having a a theme around the business, and a temperature check on some of the challenges around the business
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Josie Batres: can can be a point of entry to build relationships with the C-suite. It could be a way to position you to say, hey, help me learn more. I wanna understand through you, through your lens, through your functional lens. What's happening and what are the top challenges you have?
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, listen first. That's a great way to build trust. It really is.
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Danny Gluch: Some something that you were you were mentioning really made me.
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Danny Gluch: you know, think about the different languages we can use. And and then, when you said that, it's not programs, it's just like
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Danny Gluch: wave like the rushed over me. About
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Danny Gluch: trying to create the conditions for the employees. Right? It's it's the the Cpo. It's it's the whole C suite job to help create these conditions for the employees. That will then blossom. Dei, that will blossom engagement right? What? II really think that that can be some of the language right as opposed to like, hey, run this program. Hire this person. This is the cost. It's well
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Danny Gluch: talking about right. And again, this like gets down to that. It's just a different language that we need.
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Danny Gluch: Instead of programmatic language, condition, language. What are these like conditions that we can talk about that'll help change.
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Danny Gluch: how things are viewed. Right? Like we, we need to create conditions of blank. If we want more engagement as opposed to. We need to spend money on this engagement app and recognition app, and also this other platform. And we're gonna roll those out. And it's gonna take 6 months right? Like that's
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Danny Gluch: those apps are don't immediately create the the conditions of recognition engagement right? Like.
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Danny Gluch: So let could we maybe talk about what some of those conditions are in your experience and and hopefully have kind of that, you know.
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Josie Batres: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually had a conversation with a colleague right before the Christmas break, and she calls me it was an informal chat, and she says, Hey, I'm running a leadership program, you know. The first month of of in January says, and
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Josie Batres: I wanna get your opinion, you know, because I actually want to be
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Josie Batres: relevant. I want it to be relevant for the leadership team. And so one of these things that she mentioned was that
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Josie Batres: obviously she's taken A. A. A. They've done an annual survey, an annual survey that, you know, comes back with some key themes. And you know the 4 key themes were psychological safety communicating effectively and timely
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Josie Batres: and feeling valued and recognized in prioritization of work.
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Josie Batres: So these were the 4 key things that kind of were, you know, a a, a clear pattern throughout the organization. So you know, when you ask about conditions, they're the basic conditions that any human will need is how to be how to help leaders be more relational versus transactional.
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Josie Batres: you know, and and building that relational leadership muscle of how to connect with the team and how to engage and how to actually create a a a team charter, if you will, where there's a understanding, a common understanding of what's valued.
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Josie Batres: you know, in in the team from the eyes of psychological safety, communication, connection, and prioritization of work. Some. So some of these things can easily be implemented by taking
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Josie Batres: what people need
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Danny Gluch: and responding to those needs and their basic human needs communication recognition.
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Josie Batres: you know, making people feel safe, heard value to expected.
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Josie Batres: So they're the the soft skills that you know we, you know we often here are
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Josie Batres: you know, the the hardest skills to develop
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Danny Gluch: honesty right? Like all the clarity, all of those things like
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Danny Gluch: when when you really talk about it, like the
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Danny Gluch: those are essential, right? Like there, those are necessary conditions without that transparency and honesty that people are are going to not feel safe. They're not gonna have that sense of like, oh.
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Danny Gluch: I know how to prioritize more my work. And and I'm not gonna feel like. I was working on this one thing for 10 h, but it should have been one, but I only spent 30 min on the thing that should have been 3 h right like you have to have that transparency, that clarity, that honesty
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Danny Gluch: that that relationality would is so important. Ii feel like so much just it becomes performative and transactional like you said. And like.
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Danny Gluch: it's so hard to to talk people out of that.
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Marion: Yeah. And II think accessibility as well. You know, I think. Do you remember back in the day where some someone somewhere had a good idea that, hey? Let's have coffee mornings with the CEO, and it was again very performative and already surface. And you know the the sentiment. The idea is not terrible. It's just, you know
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Marion: it doesn't work right when it's you know you, when you're wheeling them out like a performing monkey, just to kind of like meeting greet people and then shove them back into the office. That that's just pointless. If we're really talking about psychological safety and we're talking about engagement, we're talking about transparency. It's about being in it together.
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Marion: It's about being in it real time and talking about the real stuff and being there for each other and sharing. And I think that
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Marion: there's quite often a real fear
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Marion: in the C-suite of doing that. And we definitely don't talk about that enough.
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Marion: But I think that that is a real fear for that. Certainly. Maybe first time Ceos could be startup. Whatever there's there's less confidence in that. How do you think you know Cpos.
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Marion: and senior members within the people. Vertical. How do you think we we encourage and support our peers
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Marion: to do that? To make themselves more accessible, to make themselves more transparent in a way that
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Marion: feels comfortable to them, but also really shows the employee base. They're in it with us.
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Josie Batres: Well, it. The workforce is changing, the world is changing. And you're either gonna lead or lag.
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Josie Batres: Yeah, point point black.
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Josie Batres: You know, you, you either gonna lead in this process and adapt and evolve.
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Marion: Move.
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Josie Batres: Yo, you're gonna have, you know, a team that is
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Josie Batres: not connected, you know, to the vision in in to the work, into the team, you know, and and that depletes the overall team energy. So I think, having a a leadership team that is energized
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Josie Batres: right to do this for the team and creating this one road to Hannah.
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Josie Batres: you know. Have you been to Hannah? You know there's in in in. There's this wonderful place, right? And it's a one road place like that's the only road to get to Hannah
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Josie Batres: and creating cohesion around this one road mindset, right?
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Josie Batres: Creating leadership cohesion across the leadership. C-suite
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Josie Batres: is important and building that one mindset
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Josie Batres: framework for people to
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Josie Batres: share and understand. It's a building block. It's a building block to the business. It's a building block for culture.
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Josie Batres: So
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Josie Batres: can the C-suite drink the Kool-aid. You know. I think, that it's a question of do they want to be leaders in an organization where there is all these key elements which are the intangibles
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Josie Batres: which people are looking for? Does it matter to them, you know, are they right? Seat to actually deliver this?
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, I think
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Danny Gluch: you know what you're talking about again going back to that language part I'm a big believer in what gets measured is what matters right. What gets measured is what gets the attention and what gets the focus.
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Danny Gluch: and and I think a lot of conversations come up with, hey, we need this tech stack and this tech stack. We need to run this program. We need to do a lunch and learn. We need to, you know, have this sort of accessibility.
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Danny Gluch: and and what I'm hearing you say is, let's let's strip out some of that language of tech stacks and programs, and and get more to the the intangibles of we need you to be accessible
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Danny Gluch: right like. And and here's here's the thing that that that I'm I'm it's driving me nuts in the back of my head. And Marion mentioned it like there's a lot of good intentions they're wanting to to not be rolled out and perform like a monkey. They're real. We're really wanting to connect. And they're busy.
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Danny Gluch: And they're saying, you know, what if we just get people in the office? They're all be able to be more accessible because my office will be here
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Danny Gluch: and like I like, I
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I think it's I think some of it is is that kind of intention. And I think what you're you're saying is like.
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Danny Gluch: we can have accessibility without doing that. Like II love accessibility. Let's let's find other ways. It's not just a lunch and learn. It's not coffee with the CEO. It's not be in office.
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Danny Gluch: But but yes, let's all accessibility is important.
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Danny Gluch: Communication transparent. These important. Let's find a good way to do that. Let's not just say, Hey, we got all this tech stack. Now, we're gonna be transparent, right? Like it's that's.
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Danny Gluch: you know, it's it's hard. But II think changing
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Danny Gluch: what gets talked about away from programs and tech stacks to more those intangibles.
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Danny Gluch: I really think there is, you know, a place to build that trust and and create real sustainable change that way. So I love what you're saying. This is this very, very exciting stuff.
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Josie Batres: Yeah, it's it's it's the on common, you know. Approach.
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Josie Batres: Come common. And I think that we need. We need a starting point. And I think that's where leaders actually look for a Cpo is that they don't know what their starting point is in this journey.
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Josie Batres: you know, when when they've had to, when, if you think about it, you know you hire a a seasoned, you know, executive, who is
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Josie Batres: probably very proficient technically.
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Josie Batres: but they're not very well balanced when it comes to building a relational leadership way in their own way.
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Josie Batres: You know, it's still be aligned to the organizational culture and values. So I think that the chief people officer can create that cohesiveness across leadership team by creating a starting point of how they can actually build up their relational leadership skills.
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Josie Batres: And that's what I'm saying is that it's this new language that looks at data. Right? You know, we're gonna be informed by data understanding where employee sentiment is. You don't have to measure data ongoing. You know the themes. And you know that the basic needs of people are being seen, value heard and respected. So if we kind of stick to that foundation first.
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Josie Batres: we can actually have great conversations around strategy. We can have great conversations around what leadership looks like in the organization, what's unique to them. And we can have, you know conversations around how to build an inclusive culture.
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Josie Batres: But III think we need a point of entry to have that discussion. Framework will will help, you know. Get there.
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Cacha Dora: I love that. I love that, Josie especially cause II feel like a lot of times in those conversations that happen in the C-suite. You know, a lot of people teams, a lot of people, leaders. And everyone always says, you know, we're we're we're people centric because we are right. That that's literally our vertical.
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Cacha Dora: But a lot of times
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Cacha Dora: people in the cease. We will hear people centric, and they kind of think, oh, well, you're just full of those wishes and dreams. And and you're you're gonna prioritize people over business right like, there's a lot of fear kind of going back to that theme of fear, right? And and I think the reality is is that if you do come in being data, not only data informed, but
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Cacha Dora: like, there's one thing about being informed about data. There's another thing to say, like, well, I'm going to power my thought process, my decisions, my strategy with the data.
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Cacha Dora: And I think that that conversation that you're talking about. I think that is how a lot of people leaders, a lot of Cpos Chros again, whatever title they have with particular dynamic. I think that might be how they can open that door for themselves, whereas before, if people are only hearing like Oh, well, you only care about
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Cacha Dora: people. It's like no like. Well, all of those fourth qualifiers that you just listed
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Cacha Dora: is is like the cost of entry for anybody. Regardless of the multi generational workforce we find ourselves in but being able to talk beyond data, just like I'm not reading it anymore, I'm gonna use it to tell you what's needed.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, I think that's a that's their entry point. Right?
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Josie Batres: Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, and I and I think it was Airbnb. I wanna say it was Airbnb who actually, you know, they had layoffs, you know. You know, there were a lot of restructuring that they did, and everything. And you know, how do you build from there? You know.
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Josie Batres: you know. Do you go straight to producing? And you know, making sure that you know your strategies all lined up and lubricated, and it's good to go.
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Josie Batres: I don't think so. I think there is a baseline that you need to start off from and understand. Where is your where's your leadership? What's there? Where? Where's their mind right now, you know, and and trying to stabilize strategy, leadership and engagement
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Josie Batres: takes a lot of I would say it it. It takes a lot of
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Josie Batres: steps
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Josie Batres: to rebuild that trust, to rebuild that cohesion, you know, and I think that that's where the Cpo. Or the chief people officer can enter
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Josie Batres: as a as a chief of staff in many ways to really align in in reset new power, you know, across the teams.
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Josie Batres: It's it's a it's, it's it's a process of building and rebuilding. And it's very. It's iterative. You can't really just say, Oh, it's one and done. And it's not just about.
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Josie Batres: you know, creating some sort of, you know set of
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Josie Batres: tactics.
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Josie Batres: you know, it's really evolving the business through these discussions around. How are we as leaders? And how are we showing up?
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Marion: Hmm. II think just kind of adjacent to that. Just a question that occurred to me. We we talk a lot on our podcast about burnout, psychological safety. You know well, being all of that. And
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Marion: with all of the things that we've highlighted today around what really needs to fall within, you know that the
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Marion: a forward thinking future focus. Cpo,
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Marion: it's a lot. Because not only are we, you know, in the C suite and building Relationships Building trust, you know, moving the the needle, making the the
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Marion: the small incremental changes where we can. But then we're still, you know, leading
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Marion: people, operations, teams and talent acquisition teams, talent development teams, I mean, depending on the size of your business. You know. I we get tired because the roll isn't getting smaller to allow us to do all of the extra things that we're now talking about. It's only getting bigger.
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Marion: How
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Marion: do we do that? Because that's not sustainable, right? Something has to shift.
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Marion: What do you think about how that may look in the future?
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Josie Batres: Yeah, it's so.
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Josie Batres: There's a lot of talk about AI going in, really.
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Josie Batres: I would say, you know, reinventing the way the chief people officer's team is optimized. So I think that's going away. I think that that is, you know, is going to influence
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Josie Batres: the the way things get done across the leadership team and across the people function.
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Josie Batres: II think that the the mindset of a the chief people officer is that they get a opportunity to redefine the strategy, you know, verify the strategy with the CEO first and foremost is important, and I think that there is an opportunity for the work to
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Josie Batres: really create a
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Josie Batres: really showcase where the business is thriving and where the business is not thriving and using data to support that.
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Marion: Yeah, II think you're absolutely right. I you know, I think AI is as well as a whole episode on its own and and what that means for us, if we still don't fully know. But I think we can get an idea of the direction that is going in. But II completely concur with you that I do think that
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Marion: the this kind of traditional structure of Hr teams as they are today is gonna look very different. Even in
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Marion: 2 years time. You know you, you you're probably not gonna need as much shared service stuff. And actually, the focus and emphasis can actually be on the business partnering and on the people. So I think you know, a A is a very exciting time.
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Marion: we just don't fully know enough yet. I think my biggest concern is just that that interim piece of burnout where where we are making that shift in transition.
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Marion: But we're also trying to be everything to everyone, and we know that's not sustainable. So it's exciting to know that things are on the shift. But
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Marion: short term. We've got to just keep ourselves going and keep ourselves sane. I think.
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Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: II think there's we we could go on for forever. But II really in
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Danny Gluch: you know. just to be timely. I would love if we could get some like
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Danny Gluch: call to actions like people who are wanting to take this first step, or like
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Danny Gluch: second or third step in in getting out of those the check box focused of programs and compliance and payroll, and all the the administrative stuff we need to do. What are some of those like?
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Danny Gluch: First initial steps that that you think really should be taken like if we can just kind of boil down the last 40 min into 90 s. Josie.
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Josie Batres: Oh, yeah, absolutely. So. I think. First and foremost is definitely understanding the strategy landscape.
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Josie Batres: Okay? And
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Josie Batres: and look for external challenges in the market. You know what? What is the what are the market challenges that your product and service is is is responding to
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Josie Batres: and kinda create a an external perspective on where you are. You know, yo, your organization's being positioned as a market leader, and bring that information back in house, and discuss that with your CEO and say, Hey, this is my understanding of the market landscape right now some of the challenges that I see and you know I've done research on where we actually stand as a market leader. Help me understand and amplify. What's your view on this? What's your take?
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Josie Batres: And you know and and have that conversation, if not with your CEO, have it with your Cfo.
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Josie Batres: and see if there's an opportunity to amplify your business knowledge around the business and say, you know what this year I'm gonna make it my priority to sit with you and understand. You know our financials better.
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Josie Batres: and understand what's really driving our business and what you see. Our growth being
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Josie Batres: so, I think it's, you know, it's humility, you know. You need to be really humble to really get into that business mindset and really be a business leader along with your C suite. If show that you are interested in the business, don't be again. Don't lead with programs and don't go. Don't go ask for more budget for your tech staff.
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Josie Batres: But really say, Hey, you know, I wanna make it. I wanna make a Pontius effort that I am going to
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Josie Batres: improve improve my business
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Josie Batres: my business mindset around the business, and I want you to help me. I want you to coach me through this, and you know if someone goes in there and says, You know, I really want to learn through you. Are they really gonna say, No, you know, are they really have no time? And say, you know, carve out 1015 min
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Josie Batres: Friday check-ins.
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Josie Batres: you know. I think that would be a great first step, and then getting to know your your people. Leader. Sorry. Your your c-suite a little better, you know. Understand? Say, hey! You know we work together now for 6 months. What can what do you want to see me do more and less of
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hmm.
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Josie Batres: you know, and those are hard conversations to have, because if you're not ready for the feedback, you know, and the feedback can be good or bad. So you know, you're putting yourself out there.
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Josie Batres: But you know, I think that you need to gain more intelligence around how the role is being perceived
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Josie Batres: where you are in terms of your understanding of the business right? And you gotta take a radical responsibility for where you want to go.
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Marion: I love that.
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Danny Gluch: That's amazing, Josie. Thank you so much that that was fantastic. Everyone, be sure to check out Josie's Linkedin. It'll be in the show notes.
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Danny Gluch: and you can contact us at Elephant, at the fearless Pxcom. We have new episodes every Wednesday. Be sure to subscribe. Give a review. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you next time.
