The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
Is ‘Work Family’ Just Corporate Love-Bombing in Disguise?
In this episode of The Elephant in the Org, we’re tackling the controversial “work family” narrative. Is calling your workplace a family a sign of authentic connection, or is it just another way to blur boundaries and exploit loyalty?
Join Danny, Marion, and Cacha as they explore:
- The red flags behind the "work family" narrative.
- Why this language gives some people “the ick” and others a sense of belonging.
- How workplace culture can foster real bonds without manipulation.
- The fine line between psychological safety and toxic expectations.
From corporate love-bombing to performative culture, we’re breaking down what it really means to feel connected at work—and how companies can get it right (or very wrong).
Referenced Articles:
📄 We Need to Stop Referring to Work as Family—Here’s Why
📄 Company Culture: Why You Shouldn’t Refer to Your Team as a Family
📄 The Myth of Workplace Family and What Leadership Can Do to Cultivate Authentic Engagement
📄 The Toxic Effects of Branding Your Workplace a Family
Participate in Marion’s PhD Research:
Help shape the future of work by participating in Marion’s research survey on employees’ experiences with remote, hybrid, and in-office work, and how these affect psychological safety. Your insights will contribute to understanding workplace dynamics in a post-pandemic world.
Listen now and decide: Is "work family" a comfort, a red flag, or something else entirely?
Connect with Us:
- Follow The Fearless PX on Linkedin at The Fearless PX
- Visit our website for more content and updates: https://www.thefearlesspx.com/
- Reach out to Marion, Cacha, and Danny at elephant@thefearlessp.com
- You can find all episodes of The Elephant in the Org here.
We encourage you to subscribe and leave a review if you found this episode enlightening!
From April 2024, all new episodes of The Elephant In the Org will be posted bi-weekly.
Music Credits:
Opening and closing theme by The Toros.
Production Credits:
Produced by The Fearless PX, Edited by Marion Anderson.
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are exclusively those of the hosts and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations’ official policy or position.
Danny Gluch:
Welcome back to The Elephant in the Org, everyone! I'm Danny Gluch, and I'm here with my co-hosts, Cacha Dora...
Cacha Dora:
Hello!
Danny Gluch:
...and Marion Anderson,
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Marion: Hi.
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Danny Gluch: Welcome back, ladies. Now, today's elephant in the org is family in the workplace, and not working with your siblings family as in calling each other like, Oh, we're just a big family here. Is that good? Is that bad? There's a lot of stuff on Linkedin saying it's like the worst thing ever, and it's toxic, and you should leave.
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Danny Gluch: Is that true?
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Danny Gluch: Think it does.
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Cacha Dora: Definitely, as a phrase gives people the ick to coin. An oft used Marian phrase.
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Cacha Dora: When people say we're a family here
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Cacha Dora: that normally gives people the red flag of suspicion.
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Cacha Dora: I think, because of the context that people have now
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Cacha Dora: given it over time.
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Marion: I don't disagree.
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Marion: But I also think that okay, there's there's other things to it. One is someone who has no family.
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Marion: You do form bonds with people.
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Cacha Dora: Agreed.
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Marion: Ways right?
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Marion: And so if I think about my relationships with you guys, for example, we all work together, and whilst I wouldn't say.
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Marion: Danny's my brother Kasha's my sister, I would say. We're pretty close right.
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Cacha Dora: Right 100%.
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Marion: And a lot of, and when you're an only child and don't have you know, other family around you do tend to
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Marion: covet that more. So I think that
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Marion: I think I don't think it's black and white.
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Marion: However.
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Marion: I also do think that yeah, when companies do this whole, we're like family. Yeah, it's usually bullshit and run a mile. So I don't think it's it's definitely not black and white, I think, is what I'm trying to say.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, I I know the the Linkedin posts make it seem very black and white, like if you see.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Run for the hills. This is toxic, and they're gonna try to exploit you.
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Danny Gluch: And in some ways what Marion was talking about where they're like, it's almost like pushy on it, like we have to be family like, we're so close. And it's almost like, Oh, you're going to be expected to have this really high sense of loyalty and almost a lack of personal boundaries. Because we're family and like that stuff, I totally.
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Cacha Dora: That's.
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Danny Gluch: It's toxic.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: But but there's something there on the flip side, where we spend so much time
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Danny Gluch: in work working closely with people that we have to form relationships and to not have a relationship with the people. You spend
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Danny Gluch: more time than with your actual family would be almost kind of weird
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Danny Gluch: yeah. And.
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Cacha Dora: I think I think it really does come down to
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Cacha Dora: context. And in the fact of yes, we do spend a lot of time with our coworkers. And hopefully, that's to your benefit. Hopefully, they're kind and good people, and you have psychological safety in your work dynamics. Not everybody does.
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Cacha Dora: But I think, where a lot of the I'm gonna call them Linkedin influencers, Linkedin thought. Leaders. That phrase that that space is definitely shifted over the last couple of years through the pandemic to now, but they do, I think.
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Cacha Dora: draw a very valid conclusion on the abuse of power, using a phrase that people give a shit about. We care about having a family and Danny to your point. That's really about that boundary setting, because it would. You want to
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Cacha Dora: stand your ground against your family, or would you want to agree? Because it's the right thing to do for the family
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Cacha Dora: right? And like the a lot of those things that normally people would be like. Well, I don't have.
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Cacha Dora: I'm not tied to this. I'm gonna say it like it is
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Cacha Dora: that drops. If you're in a family setting where maybe there's a respect line that normally you would be like. But now I'm gonna let it be. And, Marin, I'm seeing you. You smile a little bit, but I think it. You know I think it does. I think it does affect the power dynamic and the psychological safety. If it's leaned into the wrong way. And I do think that that's where a lot of influencers are are discussing things thought leaders are talking about.
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Marion: I? I was laughing. Because, have you guys been watching Tulsa King on TV.
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Danny Gluch: No.
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Marion: I haven't.
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Cacha Dora: Even heard of it.
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Marion: Oh, my gosh, okay, so it's on paramount, and it's
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Marion: Sylvester Stallone is a kind of mafia who's in. He does a long stint in the jail or in prison. Kind of taking the rap for another part of the family. The family.
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Marion: Names.
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Danny Gluch: That should.
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Marion: Yeah. And then when he gets when he gets out, he gets kind of banished to Tulsa.
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Danny Gluch: And.
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Marion: Actually sets up this whole kind of leg of the New York mafia. So in Tulsa. And it's a whole thing. And it's actually really good. And it's kind of addictive.
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Danny Gluch: No, I've heard it's a great show. I've heard. It's a great show, but I love that idea right that there is the the family ties, right? Family business, Mafia, and there's a very rigid. And maybe this is different in different cultures. I'd love to hear from some of our listeners that aren't so Western.
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Danny Gluch: But there's a very rigid hierarchy when we invoke these family ties, and and you're expected to follow
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Danny Gluch: orders, you know. Fall in line, if you will. And
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Danny Gluch: and that's where I think one of the steps where, or one of the instances
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Danny Gluch: where using the the phrase, family and work is really about like, Hey.
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Danny Gluch: you need to fall in line because we're a family like you're supposed to follow the leaders right.
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Cacha Dora: If you don't meet our expectations, you're a what
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Cacha Dora: a disappointment to the family.
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Cacha Dora: especially this point in our country's history. I'm sure a lot of people are feeling that way. But I will not talk about that right now, but I think that that messaging holds true right like, especially when you think about how many different
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Cacha Dora: diverse
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Cacha Dora: workplaces there are.
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Cacha Dora: The context of family means very different things.
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Cacha Dora: and it is something that can be preyed upon. It's also something that can be elevated to help. People have better conversations and
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Cacha Dora: expand upon things more.
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Cacha Dora: It's toxic. But how do you make it? Professional? And I think. Unfortunately, in a lot of people's professional experiences, they've only seen the bad side of it.
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Danny Gluch: The exploitive side.
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Cacha Dora: The exploitive side. And I think that's really what that toxicity
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Cacha Dora: is. Exploitation in the workplace because it is a control mechanism. It is a
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Cacha Dora: I can't think of the right word, but I feel like, you know,
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Cacha Dora: not. Everyone in your workplace is gonna be homogenized. But it's a tool to help that happen.
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Cacha Dora: And yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Right. And in some ways that's what we want. We want people to feel like they're a part of this community, right? It's we don't want them to feel excluded. We want them to feel a part of the family I'm doing. Air quotes, because, like that's that's kind of a
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Danny Gluch: good thing, but there's.
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Danny Gluch: you know, and and Marion was bringing up a word in or a phrase in pre-production love bombing that I actually think.
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Cacha Dora: Is the right time.
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Danny Gluch: To talk about this, because this goes with dating, too. Right? Yes, it's good to show affection and care and interest. But there's this this term love bombing where there's so much of it
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Danny Gluch: that, like there's you should start getting some flags. And and I think that happens, too, in in the workplace of like, oh, we're such a family. And and there's there's like, it's almost like that toxic positivity of that like, there's this is covering something.
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Marion: It's true. Here's the kicker, though.
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Marion: Where does belonging stop and family start, or vice versa? Right?
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Marion: Because, you know.
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Marion: we all talk about Deib, unless you're sherm. Obviously, then, he doesn't exist. But too soon.
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Danny Gluch: Staggers.
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Marion: Yeah, we'll we'll not. Let's just keep that for a whole other day, because that's
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Marion: but it is true, though, right? We we spend a lot of time talking about belonging. Well, there's no greater belonging. And then, being part of a family right.
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Cacha Dora: Right.
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Marion: So are we talking about both sides of our mouth? What? What's the? Isn't it? Just a nuance like.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah.
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Marion: Well, let's let's.
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Danny Gluch: I've got a theory.
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Cacha Dora: And what you said made me think of something too. But I guarantee me and Danny are on very different pages right now, but in a good way.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, okay, okay, okay, so
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Danny Gluch: so much of like belonging and and community making
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Danny Gluch: is is about like these sort of social contracts and not like in the Hobbesian state sort of thing, but like
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Danny Gluch: we have these expectations of of give and taking right.
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Danny Gluch: And there's a level of reciprocity that's expected.
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Danny Gluch: and when we're invoking things of family.
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Danny Gluch: that inclusion of of Oh, we want you included in this family, I think, where it gets
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Danny Gluch: asymmetrical is when loyalty is expected, not necessarily demanded, not in that toxic like exploitive, but where loyalty is expected from one side.
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Danny Gluch: but then, as soon as it comes up on the other.
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Danny Gluch: It's not there at all.
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Cacha Dora: Thank you.
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Danny Gluch: You're expected to stay through hard times to to keep working hard without getting a pay increase to, you know. Come in early, stay late, but as soon as there's a budget line that needs to be cut, you might be it, and they show you no loyalty, and I think that's where it's like. No, I didn't belong at all. It may have felt like I belonged, but I didn't.
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Cacha Dora: The family line gets cut right is because it's a and I think this is where the toxicity aspect comes from in in the public perception of using that kind of language, because it's only family for a business until it no longer serves a business.
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Danny Gluch: Yes, and then it's just a business decision.
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Cacha Dora: And I think that. And the thing is is the culture. The culture was all about that belonging. But that doesn't necessarily factor. And it's like, if you guys, you guys have, maybe, I hope, seen either the musical and or the movie Chicago. The song.
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Danny Gluch: Oh, yeah.
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Cacha Dora: When you're good to mama, mama's good to you.
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Cacha Dora: Right like that line that talks about that reciprocity that talks about it. But there's and there's obviously the
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Cacha Dora: please watch it if you haven't. It's fantastic. But you know there's a huge storyline about that reciprocity. And what happens when you don't do that? And in a business the business at the end of the day. The family only matters so much. Why? Because they have a bottom line. They need to stay in the black. They don't want to be in the red right? The business is not a family. The business has to be a business, if it's going to stay profitable.
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Cacha Dora: That's a really.
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Cacha Dora: that's where that black and white comes into play. It's like it's it feels ugly even for me to say.
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Cacha Dora: because those decisions don't talk about people. They talk about numbers. We care about people.
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Cacha Dora: and we all know what our thought process is in regards to how we can help that. But.
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Cacha Dora: you know, I think that the use of
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Cacha Dora: that language isn't.
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Cacha Dora: when used improperly.
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Cacha Dora: is an excuse. Mechanism.
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Marion: Yeah, and it.
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Cacha Dora: Accusive behavior when it's used. Well, it creates a support system that actually helps people grow and thrive because I've worked in businesses where they've said they were a family, and they felt like it until the culture shifted. And I've worked in ones that never said it, but felt like it from day one without it being voice. But I felt so taken care of by people, and I wanted to care for others, and I had those bonds. So sometimes it's also unspoken, and it's equally as powerful.
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Marion: Yeah, and it's culture.
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Marion: Funds.
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Cacha Dora: Exactly.
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Marion: Chart. It's
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Marion: any
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Marion: I kind of go back to what I said at the the beginning of of this, though, like there's something in there about
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Marion: that that
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Marion: sense of wanting to belong to something we always want to belong to something right.
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Danny Gluch: Absolutely well.
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Cacha Dora: Yes.
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Marion: You know, some kind of sports team, or, you know, some sort of like
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Marion: Hobby Group, or whatever it might be.
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Cacha Dora: Community people thrive on community, yeah, yeah.
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Marion: Community. The other thing, though, is that we do have a lot of vulnerability in society. We have a lot of lonely people. We have a lot of people that don't have extended families or not married, not having kids, dogs, you know, whatever. And so they're
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Marion: primary sense of connection is through work and through the who they connect with day to day. And I think that
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Marion: you know that that can be something that's
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Marion: overlooked.
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Marion: And there are people who do
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Marion: look for that sense of connection at work. And so for them, it does potentially feel like.
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Marion: I say, family in air quotes because it means something different to everyone, right?
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Cacha Dora: Do you think, Marian, that that causes or affects people to be maybe more of a people pleaser when they're seeking out those kind of connections. Do you think that there's an interconnectivity? There.
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Marion: You know, I'm not a psychologist, and I'd be interested to speak to maybe some of our psychology friends. But
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Marion: potentially, you know, there could be codependency there, there could be all sorts of things right. I think people are complicated, and they're mushy and messy and emotional, and all of that stuff. So there's definitely no
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Marion: one size kind of form here.
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Marion: But I do think that
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Marion: we all
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Marion: work because we want to have a sense of achievement, and more often than not we want to derive that achievement through how we work with others, how we co-operate and collaborate and do all of that stuff
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Marion: again. That's where those bonds form.
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Marion: and that's where those close connections form. Again. We're a great example of that right? So I don't. Again, I think it's
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Marion: it's super complex, it it. I'm not sure that there's any real
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Marion: clear position. I think the more we talk about it, though, the more
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Marion: it makes me a little
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Marion: perturbed by those who flat out, say it's toxic, it's toxic. Because, do you know what? For some people it's a lifeline. Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Honestly, the more I thought about it over the the last couple of weeks, and also in the middle of that was going and visiting my brother and my nieces, and
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Danny Gluch: I really really disagree with the people on the Internet, who say, you know, run for the hills as soon as they say family. I think there are other signs that say, Oh, when that's happening. If it's if it's along with this, then yes, they're going to be trying to to exploit you, and this is not going to feel good at the end. And it's going to cause trauma because you're going to
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Danny Gluch: form these bonds, and you're going to use that language. And then they're gonna just like, stab you in the back.
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Marion: Yeah, if they make you hand over your bank accounts and your cell phones, then it's probably not a job. It's probably a cult and run for the fucking hills.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah. But I I think that there's like that black and white like. If you don't agree with this, then you're wrong mentality. And it's like there's always going to be a scenario where someone can do what you think is wrong and do it right
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Cacha Dora: because they're coming in with either the right intention. They have the right strategy. They've been able to create a culture. They've been able to create an organizational system that works with that mentality in mind, there's always going to be the outlier. The sad part is is that most people have experienced a normative treatment of that language. That doesn't mean that it's
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Cacha Dora: right, but it also means that there's an opportunity to do it better.
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Marion: So
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Marion: I I was just going to say, what if we let's draw this back to psychological safety right again? Our north star right, our foundation.
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Marion: you know, in my collective at work I feel safe to
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Marion: fail. Fuck up, ask questions. You know all of all of those things.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah.
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Marion: In a share.
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Cacha Dora: When you don't agree, all of it right?
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Marion: Absolutely. No. That
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Marion: I would see is a lot more
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Marion: acceptable within a family right where you have that that typical, not everyone does, obviously, but mostly that kind of relationship where you can disagree. And you can. You know things screw up in your family should always be in theory there for you. Right.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Marion: But
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Marion: you know.
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Marion: I think a lot about
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Marion: again, we talk a lot about performative actions.
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Marion: It just makes me wonder about this stuff, too. Yeah, it's okay to fail until you feel too much. And then you're out, you know, like.
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Danny Gluch: Excuse me.
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Marion: Business right at the end of the day. If someone's not performing, if they're not able to do what they're hired to do.
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Marion: you know that's just life. Right? It's not. You're you're not on the right bus, or you're not on the right seat on the bus, and that has to be managed. So so where those lines start to get a bit bloody? Yeah, that's where it becomes really dangerous. And yeah, but you. But you said I would always be family like. What do you, you know? Like.
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Cacha Dora: Yes, that too.
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Marion: So it's it's just not clear cut at all.
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Cacha Dora: I think there's no I mean, look at it is every single person in this world comes from a complicated family because people are complicated. So just using the word family implies a million things right. Some people are going to hear family and be like, don't like mine don't like that idea not doing it. Other people are like love, mine love my mind. Let's go do that. I love that idea right? Like there's gonna be.
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Danny Gluch: Glad you brought that up, Kasha, because oftentimes we, you know, in all these posts it's comparing the like business family to this ideal family that just doesn't exist.
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Danny Gluch: It just doesn't.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, it's not. It's not made on TV, right? Like, real life is complicated. And you could have a loving relationship with your family member and still argue with them, and still not like them. And then, 4 years later, be like, you know what you're you're not
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Cacha Dora: you. You sound like you've gone through therapy. Let's talk again like.
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Danny Gluch: No, honestly, in. In some ways I think that there are more just sort of like boundaries and professionalism in work.
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Danny Gluch: that where you actually have more psychological safety in a work relationship family than an actual family.
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Danny Gluch: Right? There's there's a lot of like physical abuse, mental, emotional abuse that happens in real families.
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Cacha Dora: It's excusable.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, that if you tried to do that at work, you know, in most places you're out the door right.
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Danny Gluch: Where there are more protections, I think, in in business than.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, you have. You have this thing called labor law, that might actually protect you. That won't. In a family dynamic at home.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Like families are really complicated.
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Cacha Dora: They are, and I there, because everyone who comprises them is what
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Cacha Dora: obligated.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, it's in. In some ways I actually think that there can be like
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Danny Gluch: repair reparative restorative experiences at work in those work relationships that are healing trauma from family relationships. I actually think that
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Danny Gluch: I had that.
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Cacha Dora: Happened in my professional career like full stop when it came to dealing with men and with authority I grew up with my mom and her aunt, my mom and my aunt, 2 women. I didn't grow up having to voice my concerns to men, and then, when I did, it wasn't always in the best of circumstances when I was growing up, so, as a professional, it took me a lot longer to be able to have very constructive conversations with men than it did with women, because I inherently trusted them
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Cacha Dora: and had that right. And that's my family background, right? I just. I grew up around really strong women. I'm very grateful for that, but as a professional it gave me an unexpected challenge that I didn't expect. Because I like you, said Danny. I was coming in with my own trauma and my own like experience of not having very good constructive conversations.
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Cacha Dora: But other people will have very different experiences. It's 1 of those things where you can
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Cacha Dora: exercise those muscles. But I was lucky in that. I had a level of self awareness to see where my worry and my fear and my stress was coming from when I did have to give someone feedback
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Cacha Dora: that I was afraid of, not because I was afraid of them. I was afraid of the conversation.
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Marion: Hmm.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. Oof.
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Cacha Dora: You know, and that's when me people are complicated, like, you know, I didn't have bad men in my life. It's just I didn't have that experience to learn from right. I'm an only child. I didn't have a sibling that I could also exercise that kind of relationship dynamic with. So where did I learn at school? Where did I learn at work? Because I didn't have.
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Danny Gluch: We didn't learn a lot at the Fashion Institute with a lot of a lot, not a lot of men there to to practice, arguing and disagreeing, and having tough conversations with.
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Cacha Dora: Pretty good mixed bag when it came to the breakdown, but you know, it just kind of came down to these different experiences. I had to learn outside of my house.
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Cacha Dora: Yep.
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Marion: It's true. It's funny when you're talking about that, because for similar but different, you know, growing up again as an only child, as a parentified child, as a carer, as a.
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Marion: And I didn't have parents that were able to help me with homework or stuff like that. So I really had to try and fend for myself, and always been academically bright.
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Marion: But I didn't know that I was bright, so I thought I was, wasn't because I would get held against my cousins, who were very academic and plus their parents, are very academic, my uncle and aunt, and so I always felt like I was never good enough, and so I carried that sense of not being good enough
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Marion: all the way through, you know school and into university and beyond. And I think that's part of the driver behind my own academic success to the point where I'm now.
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Marion: You know, I have more academic qualifications than all of them right now. Clearly I enjoy it, and I get something out of it. But but that came from.
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Marion: is it toxic? I don't know. It's just family circumstances, right.
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Marion: So it's really interesting when we kind of take some of that stuff
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Marion: from our formative years and look at how it does influence us as we go through academia, and as we go through the workforce.
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Cacha Dora: Influences us. I mean, it's impossible not to, I mean, and I know that there's plenty of psychologists who talk about how
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Cacha Dora: your formative years, your young adolescence, your childhood.
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Cacha Dora: You know that subconscious is so ingrained in the decisions you make in as an adult. Whether or not again, you have that level of self awareness. And if you do have that level of self-awareness kudos to you, and if you don't, that's also totally normal. A lot of people like. There's nothing wrong with not having it. It's just like you might not realize what triggered you at work.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And this is so. Those those experiences in our early years set up the paradigms with how we interpret the world. What's interesting, though, is that as we gain new experiences in adulthood, we actually can shift our paradigms of how we understand the world.
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Danny Gluch: Most of our experiences, or like whatever half of our experiences are at work
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Danny Gluch: like just how it is. Yeah, that's our opportunity to actually change how we see the world of, you know going from, you know.
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Danny Gluch: fighting for myself to understanding that. Oh, wow! I actually to best thrive, need to have interdependence. Right? That's a very mature perspective of the world that a lot of people never get to. But I think one of the best ways to see it is is actually at work rather than anywhere else.
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Marion: It's true.
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Marion: That's true.
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Cacha Dora: I think it also requires a level of vulnerability right like Marion was talking about earlier.
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Marion: Yeah, did you know?
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Danny Gluch: You have to be vulnerable.
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Marion: It's true. I also think again, if you've
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Marion: growing up.
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Marion: however, you've grown up. But maybe you've been
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Marion: short of role models.
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Marion: you know, I mean, I started working at 15 right? And so my role models, were were people that were like, I mean 1819 20, who at the time seemed really old.
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Marion: not old. You know what I mean a lot older than me.
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Cacha Dora: The younger. You are, people see, much older than they really are.
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Marion: That's true.
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Marion: They were my role models because I didn't have other sources of that as such.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Marion: And so. And I think that continues, obviously, it's just part of being a human being and and observing others and learning from others.
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Marion: So yeah, it's it's
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Marion: very how how to your point.
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Marion: how we see the world.
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Marion: And how we fit within. That
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Marion: is a never ending
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Marion: stories, a never ending journey but particularly shaped heavily from those formative years.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And I,
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Danny Gluch: I think there's a
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Danny Gluch: a parallel, a really strong parallel to the needing of role models and and parents and therapists in our personal lives
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Danny Gluch: and every organization I've ever been a part of or spoken to, and their desire for mentorship programs, I think that that need is. It's the. I think it's the same need. I think it's the need of.
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Danny Gluch: hey? People need. They don't just need professional development. They need maturity.
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Danny Gluch: They need to learn how to grow into increasing responsibilities in life and in work.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And
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Danny Gluch: you know, I don't think your mentor should also be your therapist, or anything like that like it's. I think there are different roles. But I think the fact that organizations are calling out and asking for mentorship programs everywhere.
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Danny Gluch: Is is a sign that that we're just recognizing that people people are vulnerable
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Danny Gluch: and they are being challenged. And they need support. And I can't think of a more psychologically safe relationship than the mentorship relationship. It is just a hey. I've made mistakes, too. Let me tell you about. You know my experience when I was in your shoes. Maybe you can learn from my mistakes, and I'll walk you through whenever you you know. I'll help pick you up when you fall down.
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Marion: Well as long as the mentor has the their own sense of psychological safety.
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Danny Gluch: Yes, that's fair. It has to be the right.
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Marion: So.
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Cacha Dora: You know.
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Marion: Because again, a lot of people will put their hand up to do these things because they think it gives them boundary points and doesn't necessarily.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Marion: Do what it needs to do. But again, you know, this is life. Life is complex. It's it's it's it's
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Marion: varies. It's so unique and nuanced in all of these things like it. Just there's no one size scenario here but
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Marion: bringing it back to where we started. Is it really wrong to want to find that sense of belonging at work? Absolutely not.
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Marion: And if you call it family, yeah, it's definitely got toxicity to it. But is it to the point, like some of you know, our peers are making out to be this big deal that it really is.
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Danny Gluch: No.
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Marion: It's not.
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Marion: And I think.
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Danny Gluch: Real sign you should look for is when they're saying We're family. Does it come with psychological safety, or does it come with expectations of following orders. And and you know.
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Cacha Dora: Caveats and things like that. Yeah, cause like they're even like, if you were to look at
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Cacha Dora: how people help identify. I think it was Levinson I can't remember. I know he was a psychologist or psychiatrist who followed Freud. He created a whole series of how to diagnose an organization to figure out their organizational structure and culture.
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Marion: Hmm.
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Cacha Dora: Based on Freud, which was based on parentified systems. So they're even at that point in like, I think, I think it was what like the sixties or so like people were thinking of businesses and thinking of the manager direct report relationship as a very parentified system.
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Cacha Dora: It's, I think, a really normal thing for people to think about. But then that also brings back the complexity of family in general, even whether you're looking at it from an academic perspective. Or if you're looking at it from a work culture perspective, if you're looking at it from a
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Cacha Dora: how do you actually say what you mean and mean what you say through your actions in the business like it. All kind of
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Cacha Dora: context, context, context, context, everywhere.
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Marion: Absolutely.
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Danny Gluch: No!
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Danny Gluch: Any last thoughts, Marion.
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Marion: No brother.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, thank, you.
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Cacha Dora: We're art thou.
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Danny Gluch: Am I my brother's keeper?
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Danny Gluch: No, I'm my brother's manager.
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Cacha Dora: Oh.
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Cacha Dora: my brothers!
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Danny Gluch: By direct report. I don't know. There's something in there. We're gonna workshop. It.
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Cacha Dora: There's a conflict of interest somewhere. That's what.
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Marion: Sounds too messy for this time on a Friday night. Let's not.
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Danny Gluch: Yes, yes, yeah, I I think it really boils down to
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Danny Gluch: having that sense of belonging
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Danny Gluch: and not demonizing, or, or, you know, making it seem like you're less than because you're wanting to connect
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Danny Gluch: with your coworkers on a deep level, where you have a sense of safety security like
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Danny Gluch: you know, Marion, earlier, you said, you know we work because we want to achieve things, and I totally agree with that's oftentimes why we choose our craft.
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Danny Gluch: But let's be honest. We oftentimes work to keep a roof over our heads.
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Marion: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: And that's what's at risk.
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Danny Gluch: right like it's if if I don't have this job, I don't have this roof over my head, and that's that's that's scary.
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Danny Gluch: And honestly, if
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Danny Gluch: if a organization calls me family or not, I still want to feel that security that I can trust, this roof is going to stay over my head.
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Marion: Amen!
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Danny Gluch: And and I think everyone deserves that
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Danny Gluch: every worker
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Danny Gluch: and you know whatever, whether you're using the word family or not. And and I think that's something we get from our parents right like. That's if you're a part of a real family. No kid should worry if they have a roof over their head or not like. How horrifying is that.
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Marion: Yeah, for sure.
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Marion: Anyways.
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Danny Gluch: On that cheery note. Thank you all for listening. You can contact us at elephant@thefearlesspx.com. You can find us all on Linkedin. Be sure to find Marian's survey so that you can take that. She's doing her study on return to office. Hybrid work in office work, super cool stuff. Take it as soon as you can, because it's going to close. So please go. Take that. Thank you all, and we'll see you next time.
