The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
We Look Inclusive. We Just Don’t Act Like It. with Dr. Angela Young
Let’s talk about the difference between looking inclusive — and actually being inclusive.
In this powerful episode, Marion and Danny are joined by Dr. Angela Young, a bold advocate for digital accessibility, to break down the emotional labor, internalized ableism, and corporate gaslighting that so many disabled, neurodivergent, and non-binary professionals still face at work.
From rainbow logos to “awareness weeks,” companies love to brand themselves as inclusive — right up until someone asks for real change. Angela unpacks what performative DEI looks like from the inside, what happens when inclusion becomes inconvenient, and what true allyship really requires.
Whether you're an HR leader, line manager, or employee trying to survive in a system that wasn’t built for you — this conversation will challenge you to do better.
In This Episode:
- The difference between diversity as presence and inclusion as practice
- Why “palatable” often means “invisible”
- How masking and code-switching drain disabled and neurodivergent employees
- What performative inclusion looks like in real time — and why it’s not enough
- Two free things every company can do today to make onboarding more accessible
- The connection between psychological safety and real inclusion
About Our Guest:
Dr. Angela Young (they/them) is a deaf, queer, non-binary, multiply disabled accessibility strategist and educator. With a doctorate in education and certifications in accessibility and leadership, Angela empowers thousands through public speaking, training, and strategy focused on inclusive, human-centered design.
📍 Connect with Angela on LinkedIn
Link to this episodes show notes
🐘 Connect with Us:
🚀 Follow The Fearless PX on LinkedIn: The Fearless PX
📩 Got a hot take or a workplace horror story? Email Marion, Cacha, and Danny at elephant@thefearlesspx.com
🎧 Catch every episode of The Elephant in the Org: All Episodes Here
🚀Your Hosts on Linkedin:
💬 Like what you hear?
Subscribe, leave a ★★★★★ review, and help us bring more elephants into the light.
🎙️ About the Show
The Elephant in the Org drops new episodes every two weeks starting April 2024.
Get ready for even more fearless conversations about leadership, psychological safety, and the future of work.
🎵 Music & Production Credits
🎶 Opening and closing theme music by The Toros
🎙️ Produced by The Fearless PX
✂️ Edited by Marion Anderson
⚠️ Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations' official policy or position.
WEBVTT
1
00:00:02.710 --> 00:00:08.419
Danny Gluch: Welcome back to the elephant in the org, everyone. I'm Danny Gluch, and I'm joined by my co-host, Marion Anderson.
2
00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:13.998
Marion: I feel like I should do a cash off. Hello!
3
00:00:14.490 --> 00:00:17.130
Danny Gluch: Kasha is with us spiritually today.
4
00:00:19.340 --> 00:00:24.359
Danny Gluch: and we have a wonderful guest. Dr. Angela young, welcome.
5
00:00:25.270 --> 00:00:39.210
Angela Young: Thank you so much. Hi, everyone. I'm Dr. Young, also known as Ange or Angela. You can call me any of the above. I am currently the training and Awareness lead for the accessibility program at Navy Federal.
6
00:00:39.210 --> 00:00:56.760
Angela Young: And I, you know, do a lot of disability advocacy, a lot of public speaking on. You know, disability, advocacy. And you know, my main goal is how to bridge gaps between mainstream communities and marginalized communities from a disability perspective.
7
00:00:57.230 --> 00:01:19.239
Danny Gluch: Yeah. And you have so many amazing experiences and opinions that we're just so excited. Because today's elephant in the org is when inclusion gets a little inconvenient, because organizations love having pride, flags and Dei statements all over the place.
8
00:01:19.520 --> 00:01:33.472
Danny Gluch: But when, like the rubber meets the road, or, you know, insert analogy about things getting real you know, when the shit hits the bookcase, as Marion just told the story of the dog she's caring for
9
00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:39.549
Danny Gluch: when things get real and things get hard.
10
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:52.290
Danny Gluch: Inclusion doesn't seem to be as much of a priority, and it makes you wonder if it's really a priority at all. And I'm so glad Ange joined us today because this is going to be a banger of an episode.
11
00:01:53.470 --> 00:01:54.980
Marion: Absolutely.
12
00:01:54.980 --> 00:01:56.310
Angela Young: I'm excited to be here.
13
00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.359
Marion: Yeah, no, we're super excited. And you know
14
00:02:00.590 --> 00:02:07.089
Marion: something that that we were talking about earlier is, and just adding on to what Danny said. You know.
15
00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:30.829
Marion: I've noticed that all the things that people like to revere, whether it be we're, you know, we believe that we're a truly inclusive organization. We want to create belonging. We want to. You know, we want to be attracting everyone and anyone to our org. We want to. You know, we want to lead. Well, we want to be.
16
00:02:31.130 --> 00:02:39.799
Marion: Name your favorite type of leadership style here serving, or you know, whatever right authentic, whatever
17
00:02:40.263 --> 00:02:47.820
Marion: and it's all well and good when times are good. But to your point, Danny, when the shit hits the bookcase toll
18
00:02:47.930 --> 00:02:50.379
Marion: as a whole, other story, people that are listening.
19
00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:57.320
Marion: But it they do go out the window, and it's almost like we.
20
00:02:57.610 --> 00:03:00.359
Marion: I don't think it's that we forget.
21
00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:05.039
Marion: It just doesn't somehow seem to remain as important.
22
00:03:05.230 --> 00:03:19.884
Marion: And I think that we've seen a lot of that recently. Certainly. An example target, right? Who were for years like rainbow flags everywhere, you know, supporting every
23
00:03:21.290 --> 00:03:28.590
Marion: holiday. Is that the right word that celebrates, you know, whatever black history month whatever. And then all of a sudden, just
24
00:03:29.110 --> 00:03:34.229
Marion: gone as soon as the tide changed politically in in our external environment.
25
00:03:34.857 --> 00:03:37.432
Marion: There's a cat just jumped behind me.
26
00:03:37.990 --> 00:03:39.600
Marion: Just gone right?
27
00:03:40.580 --> 00:03:42.180
Marion: Why is this happening.
28
00:03:46.270 --> 00:03:53.423
Angela Young: I mean I I don't know if you asked that, rhetorically or not, but I'm going to answer it anyway, because that's what I do
29
00:03:54.510 --> 00:03:58.669
Angela Young: The thing that I've noticed with organizations that I've worked with
30
00:03:58.830 --> 00:04:03.230
Angela Young: is that, you know people are confusing
31
00:04:03.480 --> 00:04:07.769
Angela Young: diversity and inclusion as the same thing.
32
00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:37.239
Angela Young: and that word and exists there for a reason. And what I like to tell organizations when I speak to them is okay. Look, diversity is presence. It's who you've got in the room with you, or on your slide deck, or in your brochure right to look, you know, diverse like, Hey, look! We hire all different types of people. But what people need to realize is that an organization can be diverse and also still be exclusionary.
33
00:04:37.410 --> 00:04:47.769
Angela Young: because because inclusion is practice, so diversity is presence. Inclusion is practice. So it's how people are treated.
34
00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:59.420
Angela Young: Once they're at your organization, it's whether your organizational systems in place shift to support the humans that you have at your organization, not just identity groups, right?
35
00:04:59.420 --> 00:04:59.800
Angela Young: And.
36
00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:00.220
Marion: But.
37
00:05:00.220 --> 00:05:14.990
Angela Young: And this opens up a conversation to the larger concept of intersectional identities. So the analogy I've given when I've spoken is that diversity is, you get invited to the party. Hey, Marion, we're having a party you want to come. Great
38
00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:35.480
Angela Young: inclusion is whether the music and the space and the foods chosen for the party were chosen with you in mind, hey? Sure, Ange, I can come to your party, but I have a gluten intolerance. Are you going to have gluten free food there. Oh, well, no sorry. Can you eat before you come? Okay. Well, I'm plenty diverse, right? But I'm not inclusionary there, so.
39
00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:35.850
Marion: So.
40
00:05:35.850 --> 00:05:42.169
Angela Young: So that's a big, that's a big concept that a lot of people
41
00:05:42.580 --> 00:05:48.509
Angela Young: usually unintentionally miss is that diversity and inclusion are not the same thing.
42
00:05:49.370 --> 00:05:50.010
Marion: Hmm.
43
00:05:50.010 --> 00:06:11.219
Danny Gluch: Yeah, that's such a good, you know. And I want to say nuanced, because that's a word we use a lot. But like, that's that's just basic right. Like they are different terms. They have different meanings. And you're right. They do get so lumped in right. You always hear, you know, d, and IDE. And I like as if it was one phrase, but it's they're very different things, and for a reason.
44
00:06:11.330 --> 00:06:20.610
Danny Gluch: and it seems, you know, like diversity is almost like a checkbox, like mechanically, did you guys do this? Okay, good. But
45
00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:43.160
Danny Gluch: I feel like one of the places that that organizations are probably not set up to do this well is because inclusivity is a lot more subjective. It's a feeling. It's a lot more personal to individuals than it is, hey? We can apply the same sorts of rules or practices to everyone, and they'll all feel included when like
46
00:06:43.160 --> 00:07:06.240
Danny Gluch: by definition. That's not what inclusion is inclusion can't be. One. Size fits all that's like the definition of not inclusion. And I think that's 1 of the places where organizations struggle because they like to be, you know, objective and equal, and that just doesn't equal inclusion when you don't fit the sort of like prototypical employee.
47
00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.890
Angela Young: That's exactly right. And you know there's
48
00:07:14.340 --> 00:07:19.510
Angela Young: once you take it a step further, you know. Most orgs
49
00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:35.880
Angela Young: say, Hey, you know you belong here. We want you here. But then, when you've said like you said, when the shit hits the bookcase, when someone is saying, Okay, I belong here. But I also need accommodations. People are like, Oh, Whoa! Wait a second! Wait a second. You know we didn't account for that.
50
00:07:36.260 --> 00:07:37.060
Angela Young: So.
51
00:07:37.060 --> 00:07:37.540
Danny Gluch: Hmm.
52
00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:46.129
Angela Young: You know, once inclusion becomes inconvenient, as you said at the intro, you know. That's when you find out who's performative and who's authentic.
53
00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:46.610
Danny Gluch: Oh!
54
00:07:46.610 --> 00:07:47.140
Marion: Yeah.
55
00:07:47.140 --> 00:07:48.630
Angela Young: Because inclusion.
56
00:07:49.490 --> 00:07:54.920
Angela Young: It's very easy to exhibit inclusion from a performance
57
00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:59.669
Angela Young: viewpoint and not through authentic allyship.
58
00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:15.580
Angela Young: So I mean, you know, I've been told I'm really easy to work with. I've been told. I get along with everyone. I've been told I'm I'm very flexible and adaptable, and all of these things, and they're set as compliments.
59
00:08:15.950 --> 00:08:29.160
Angela Young: But I'm non-binary. I'm deaf. I'm multiply disabled. And the reason why I appear so amenable is because I've shrunk myself. Historically speaking not anymore, but shrunk myself.
60
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:54.649
Angela Young: you know, to fit someone else's comfort zone. So when I hear oh, you're so easy to get along with. What that means to me is you don't make me uncomfortable. You don't put me on the spot, you know. You don't challenge my beliefs. So the whole reason, for example. That I speak without a deaf accent is because I forced myself to learn how to speak, because when I spoke as a child, people were very uncomfortable with
61
00:08:55.140 --> 00:09:15.149
Angela Young: how they interpreted my speaking, and it period people out. So then, instantly, as a child, 4 or 5, 6 years old, I was like. Now I have to find out how to, you know, communicate in a way that that works for everybody, you know, because clearly it's not working for them now. So I have to be the one to change.
62
00:09:15.150 --> 00:09:21.399
Marion: Yeah, wow, I think that's a really important point. I, I was pondering something, this morning, because
63
00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:27.120
Marion: it came into my head, I was thinking, can you only really recognize
64
00:09:27.800 --> 00:09:32.120
Marion: what inclusion truly is if you've been excluded right?
65
00:09:32.750 --> 00:09:44.810
Marion: And I was thinking about that, and I was thinking, Is that true, because a big part of that for me does resonate. I've talked about this before, where you know, grew up as the child of disabled parents.
66
00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:50.960
Marion: When I kind of got into leadership in in people roles. Thought that I would
67
00:09:51.210 --> 00:10:05.969
Marion: know how to just magically handle kind of any disability related work through, you know, in Hr, just because of that that grounding in that background. And I really didn't. And it wasn't until
68
00:10:06.469 --> 00:10:13.870
Marion: you know, I became classified as disabled myself that I began to realize I knew absolutely. Jack shit, and
69
00:10:14.790 --> 00:10:16.640
Marion: felt a huge amount of.
70
00:10:16.950 --> 00:10:24.969
Marion: I guess shame and embarrassment about not about not knowing more right, because now I could see it myself, and feel it myself.
71
00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:27.310
Marion: What it was like to be
72
00:10:27.730 --> 00:10:31.089
Marion: to have to advocate so strongly and feel
73
00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:43.250
Marion: shame that you're being perceived as too much or asking for too much, or you know, and again, for very basic things to be able to function physically at at work right?
74
00:10:44.363 --> 00:10:54.939
Marion: And so yes, in that sense it it truly was that that helped me really form a deeper understanding of inclusion.
75
00:10:55.370 --> 00:11:02.500
Marion: However, the other thing that occurred to me when I was thinking about that was that, you know
76
00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:04.400
Marion: we we all
77
00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:31.330
Marion: experience some form of exclusion in our lives. I think right, whether it be you're not the popular kid in the playground, or whether it be that your body shape doesn't conform to the norm. So you feel that you don't fit in in the gym, or you don't fit in in the locker room, or like there's so again. Nuance, Danny. But there's so many different scenarios here in our lives.
78
00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.749
Marion: where we've all felt excluded in one way or another.
79
00:11:36.810 --> 00:11:41.440
Marion: But then I don't know if that makes us do better. I don't think it does.
80
00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:59.939
Danny Gluch: No, yeah. And I think that's part of the problem is the assumption that oh, I've experienced this myself. So I'm going to be able to be an effective practitioner of this for other people, when oftentimes what happens then, is the filtering of
81
00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:16.619
Danny Gluch: through your experience of Oh, I was excluded this way. So let me make sure this person it feels included by not excluding them the way I was excluded. And now we're doing the same. One. Size fits all. It's just a Marion shape size instead of a, you know, a generic shape, and.
82
00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:17.130
Marion: Sure.
83
00:12:17.730 --> 00:12:18.480
Danny Gluch: Oh, go ahead!
84
00:12:19.290 --> 00:12:42.130
Angela Young: I need to give a shout out here to one of my most favorite people in the world. Her name her name is Dr. Shebba Guy, and she's on Linkedin, and one of my besties, and one of the best things she says is, your proximity to blackness does not make you an anti-racist. You know the work you do makes you an anti-racist, and I think that same
85
00:12:42.130 --> 00:12:56.440
Angela Young: concept parallels here very nicely that your proximity to exclusion and your proximity to what that feels like doesn't automatically make you an expert at inclusion or a practitioner of inclusion.
86
00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:57.250
Angela Young: And
87
00:12:57.270 --> 00:13:08.069
Angela Young: you know, when I you know, she doesn't just say that she backs it up with a lot of, you know, research and a lot of ways to, you know.
88
00:13:08.140 --> 00:13:37.630
Angela Young: become anti-racist, and to ensure that people at your organization are practicing anti-racism, and and that's what we try to do, too. Like, as you know, queer, disabled, deaf people such as myself. You know, that's what we try to do. We try to say, Okay, look, just because you've experienced it doesn't mean that you're an expert at it. And that's okay. We're not expecting that, you know. But what we are expecting you to do is have empathy instead of doubt. So when someone comes to you and says
89
00:13:38.150 --> 00:14:00.610
Angela Young: I have a disability. You know, the 1st thing in your head shouldn't be like, really, because you you don't look like you do. Because let's go back to statistics right? Because numbers never lie. 85% of the disabled population has an invisible disability. So when you see, when you are out. And you see someone who is disabled. You are only seeing 15% of that population. Okay.
90
00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:14.260
Angela Young: So if you look at me unless you see me talk, and you can visibly see the the microtia that I have, you know, in my face. Then you know, you're not even going to know I'm disabled. If you hear me on the phone, you're not going to know I'm deaf.
91
00:14:14.400 --> 00:14:22.790
Angela Young: So so you have to remember that when you approach people and people say to you, Hey, this is what I need. Please don't approach them with doubt.
92
00:14:22.790 --> 00:14:23.130
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
93
00:14:23.130 --> 00:14:34.630
Angela Young: Please don't second, guess them. Please approach them with empathy. I believe you the 1st time you've told me, you know, and now I will get you what you need. I would also like to give a shout out
94
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:57.450
Angela Young: to 2 really amazing managers. I've had the pleasure of working under serving under so Stephanie Gomez at site improve and Juanita George at Navy, Federal, who, when I told them what my needs were, their reactions were instant. Okay, no problem. Here you go.
95
00:14:57.450 --> 00:15:06.949
Angela Young: and it wasn't a fuss, and it wasn't hurdles, and it wasn't disbelief, and it wasn't waiting around to see if we can accommodate you. It was instant.
96
00:15:06.950 --> 00:15:07.500
Marion: Okay.
97
00:15:07.790 --> 00:15:19.560
Angela Young: And and to me it should be that easy. That is real inclusion. When you, when someone comes to you and you accommodate them as soon as you are realistically able. That is inclusion.
98
00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:20.190
Marion: Yeah.
99
00:15:20.190 --> 00:15:21.020
Angela Young: Yeah, you know.
100
00:15:21.020 --> 00:15:21.580
Danny Gluch: And.
101
00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:24.589
Angela Young: And and let me so sorry. One more thing.
102
00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:51.879
Angela Young: 1st thing you have to do before that can even happen is create a safe space, because if you have not created a safe space where someone feels comfortable enough to come to you and say that then no one's going to be coming to you and championing for themselves, because they don't feel safe, too, and the way I was treated by those managers, and the way I was treated, you know, throughout the recruitment process to the hiring process, to onboarding, and and everything
103
00:15:51.880 --> 00:15:55.370
Angela Young: showed me very quickly that I had a safe space.
104
00:15:55.570 --> 00:15:55.940
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
105
00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:56.780
Marion: Yeah.
106
00:15:57.030 --> 00:16:05.850
Danny Gluch: And it. It reminds me of a concept. And you used a phrase while we were talking about what this episode was gonna be about was about palatability?
107
00:16:06.290 --> 00:16:35.559
Danny Gluch: Is your disability palatable to the organization and the individuals that you're going to be coming across you mentioned when you were, you know, growing up. You learned to be palatable to the people by learning to speak without a deaf accent, and I'm sure you did a number of things you didn't even mention to be palatable. And that's that's something to me that if if you know, I'm talking to people and we're asking like, Okay, well, how can we be more inclusive?
108
00:16:36.050 --> 00:16:40.619
Danny Gluch: I think that phrase could be really key of, can you.
109
00:16:40.810 --> 00:16:48.160
Danny Gluch: you know, do the work from your side so that other people don't have to be palatable and.
110
00:16:48.160 --> 00:17:16.700
Angela Young: And let's let's define that. So to me, you know, being palatable means, hey? I'm being quiet about my pain. I'm going to be flexible around your inaccessibility, and I'm gonna be grateful for whatever crumbs you choose to throw me. So it's time for disabled people to stop being palatable because internalized ableism tells us that we're asking for way too much right? Inclusive workplaces unlearn that right along with us. They don't reinforce it. They unlearn it.
111
00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:17.040
Angela Young: Thank you.
112
00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:35.219
Angela Young: and that's what you know. That's what we need to do when you apply for a job. Nowhere on any job description that I've ever seen. And I'm not an expert, but nowhere on any job description have I ever seen. Hey? 2 of the hard skills you need to have for this role are masking and code switching
113
00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:51.830
Angela Young: right? But yet but yet anyone who is disabled is an expert at those skills we can mask. And we can code switch like nobody's business but guess what their survival skills. And they burn us out. And that's why organizations need to stop expecting their employees to be palatable
114
00:17:52.090 --> 00:18:22.000
Angela Young: and to come back and say, Okay, you know. We are going to believe what you need the 1st time, so that you don't have to keep explaining. You know what you need. You know, because that's not inclusion. That's exhaustion. Right? We're we're exhausted at that point. And then, finally, the last point I want to make at this juncture is that you know you can say you're inclusive during pride month. I mean, how many of your organizations? If you're listening right now, how many of your organizations
115
00:18:22.130 --> 00:18:41.310
Angela Young: put up a rainbow logo during pride month? Raise your hand right? Okay. My hand is up right. But inclusion during pride month doesn't mean squat. If for the rest of the year I can't get live captioning or gender neutral bathroom access? Right? So so therefore
116
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:48.100
Angela Young: it's just performative. What are your organizations actually doing? 3, 65 year round?
117
00:18:48.750 --> 00:18:52.512
Marion: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and I think another thing
118
00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:59.830
Marion: which is really weighing on us all is what's happening in our external environment. Right?
119
00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:26.049
Marion: And the again the change in the tides where these companies, who were all Gung ho on Dei, you know. And then, all of a sudden, it's now a dirty secret, and we don't talk about it. And or we call it something else, or we just and you know, and all these companies that 5 years ago made a big song and dance about hiring heads of Dei, like, you know, all of this stuff, and
120
00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.570
Marion: that was meant to make what you just talked about a reality.
121
00:19:33.390 --> 00:19:47.599
Marion: and it's done nothing, and what it shows the majority. And I can't again, anecdotal can't back this up with numbers. But, like the majority of those companies that made the big song and dance about it. Where are those roles now? They're not there. They've gone
122
00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:48.350
Marion: and.
123
00:19:48.350 --> 00:19:48.700
Angela Young: Yep.
124
00:19:49.780 --> 00:19:51.290
Marion: You know it.
125
00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:59.960
Marion: It strikes me that to your point it should be, you know, every day of the year
126
00:20:00.610 --> 00:20:13.180
Marion: we shouldn't have to ask for accommodations. They should just be, you know, if I'm neurodivergent, I shouldn't have to ask for a specific type of space to work in. It should be available.
127
00:20:13.320 --> 00:20:22.059
Marion: If I like me, you know I have Ehlers-danlos. I need a standing desk, and and I need a chair with a certain level of support.
128
00:20:22.510 --> 00:20:32.309
Marion: I shouldn't have to crawl on my hands and knees and beg for that. It should just be available. Right? It. And these things are not. And and it's
129
00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:39.909
Marion: it's cost, and it's space. And it's all of these things. And and I guess that's where that kind of juxtaposition with.
130
00:20:40.120 --> 00:20:56.269
Marion: you know, the return to the office piece piece, which you know is my research right and and is a huge thing. We know that during the pandemic was one of the not a great time, obviously, but it was a. It was a great time for
131
00:20:56.450 --> 00:21:03.780
Marion: diversity and inclusion in terms of the accessibility to being in work, and that's just vanished, too.
132
00:21:03.780 --> 00:21:04.110
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
133
00:21:04.110 --> 00:21:05.980
Marion: And I'm
134
00:21:06.876 --> 00:21:28.020
Marion: I don't know how we come back from this, because we did some great work. We made big steps forward, and now we've pulled back. It has to evolve into something else. It can't just be a big song and dance initiative that needs to be part of the day to day. But we're fighting against this external environment, I mean.
135
00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:29.859
Marion: where do we go from here?
136
00:21:31.610 --> 00:21:38.829
Angela Young: You know, it's so much of what you just said really resonated with me, because I'm willing to bet
137
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:44.132
Angela Young: that anytime we're championing for something like pride month or
138
00:21:44.830 --> 00:22:11.069
Angela Young: Hispanic heritage month or black history month or anything. If you're listening right now, I am willing to bet, if you fall under any of the identity groups that your organization champions, for there are times where people have said to you, Hey, please come, share your story. Come up on stage. Come, speak on a panel, but guess what, if you're not ready to champion for me off stage? I am not giving you my best on stage, because
139
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:12.480
Angela Young: because
140
00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:23.529
Angela Young: it's performative. Again, at that point you want to be able to do this dog and pony show with me included. You know you want me to sing and dance, you know.
141
00:22:23.970 --> 00:22:43.879
Angela Young: you want me to show you that our organization is diverse and progressive and inclusive, and all of these things, and then, once the panel is over and the lights go down and the recording stops. You're not doing anything for me. That that disconnect is not okay, you know, and and we
142
00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:56.609
Angela Young: newsflash orgs. We, as marginalized folks, can totally tell when we are being used, and I I use the word used on purpose. I know that word has a lot of connotations.
143
00:22:57.170 --> 00:23:07.460
Angela Young: But I use that word on purpose, because that's what it feels like to us, even if that seems really histrionic to you. That's what it feels like to us. It feels like we are being used. And that's not okay.
144
00:23:10.430 --> 00:23:18.400
Angela Young: And then I think so. So in the work I'm doing with my therapist right now.
145
00:23:18.530 --> 00:23:44.899
Angela Young: We talk a lot about healing our younger selves. So when we're discussing a concept, she will say to me, Okay, what would you tell your younger self in this situation? You know, what would you want your younger self to understand? And we do it so much that it's become second nature for me to pause throughout my day and have a conversation with a younger self, that that situation might apply to that I'm in at the moment, or that thought process that I'm in at the moment might apply to.
146
00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:53.700
Angela Young: So what I say to my younger selves about this topic, and what I would say to you and to all of your younger selves if they need to hear this, if they have not heard. This is
147
00:23:53.890 --> 00:24:12.289
Angela Young: as Sonia Rene Taylor says, your body is not an apology. Okay, if you haven't read that book you need to, and if you haven't listened to the audio book, and you like to listen to audio books. You will be nodding and smiling and needing to pull over during your commute so that you can fully attend to what she's saying.
148
00:24:12.290 --> 00:24:12.640
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
149
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:35.180
Angela Young: But your body is not an apology, and what I say is, you don't owe anyone an explanation for needing the care, the accommodations, the empathy or the support that you need. You were never too much. Okay. If people have told you that you were too much, you were never too much, and you are never too much. You're just too real for the performance that they're trying to put on.
150
00:24:35.540 --> 00:24:36.050
Danny Gluch: Wow!
151
00:24:36.050 --> 00:24:47.129
Marion: I'm like, I'm like welling up here. I needed to hear this today, I think and I, you know, I think, no matter how strong you are, and how
152
00:24:47.850 --> 00:24:55.789
Marion: capable you are to advocate for yourself and your needs that capability, that strength, came.
153
00:24:56.780 --> 00:24:59.820
Marion: the disadvantage of that younger self.
154
00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:11.919
Marion: that younger self went through a huge amount of trauma and anxiety and and pain and stress to achieve the place where you're able to advocate. And and I
155
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.040
Marion: that really resonates with me, because
156
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:24.790
Marion: should we have to put ourselves through that, should we have to endure that to come out the other end stronger? Yes, that's life. That's how we grow. But
157
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.310
Marion: we should be able to do better.
158
00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:32.950
Danny Gluch: Yeah, it's it's 1 of those things that
159
00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:36.629
Danny Gluch: you're right, Marion. It is. It is a bit of life.
160
00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:39.719
Danny Gluch: and it's it's not going to be perfect. And
161
00:25:40.020 --> 00:25:46.889
Danny Gluch: but when you meet that person or that organization that just gets it, and you just get to be yourself.
162
00:25:47.100 --> 00:25:55.140
Danny Gluch: it it's so obvious. And it's like, what, where's this bin that didn't seem all that hard?
163
00:25:55.530 --> 00:26:13.230
Danny Gluch: And I think that's when when you were telling the story of of your 2 managers and and their names escaped me already. But I'm so glad you called them out by name and by organization, because when you encounter that, and they're just there for you, and just say.
164
00:26:13.230 --> 00:26:27.620
Danny Gluch: Oh, yeah, let me do what I can to accommodate that. It just makes such a difference. And it's it's so like, not just for you, but it's healing, for, like all of our past traumas, too, and it just.
165
00:26:27.620 --> 00:26:42.089
Danny Gluch: It's such a wildly amazing thing that escapes so many people. And it it really is so hard and something that that you brought up, and in our discussions of what this would be
166
00:26:42.490 --> 00:26:50.949
Danny Gluch: is, it seems so much easier for organizations and teams and individuals to show up and care on the really sort of acute
167
00:26:51.520 --> 00:27:17.529
Danny Gluch: short term issues. Someone's, you know, family is experiencing something really bad, or someone has to go through. You know, some treatment, or you know they're they're in an accident, you know. I got hit by a bus, and it's, you know, for 6 months, it's easy to, you know, show really deep care and accommodations for Danny. But what happens when the short term becomes long and sustained, and there is no like, you know.
168
00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:37.209
Danny Gluch: easy, clear, like. Oh, we can care really deeply and accommodate, because this is only going to last 6 months. What if it lasts for 60 years the length of someone's entire employment? It seems like the passion, and even just the interest in accommodating and really caring deeply. Kind of gets lost.
169
00:27:37.580 --> 00:27:42.960
Danny Gluch: And is there some fatigue like what what happens there, Ange?
170
00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:52.349
Angela Young: I think I think there, I think, as humans, you know, we do have fatigue when it comes to
171
00:27:53.370 --> 00:28:03.429
Angela Young: things that are sad or things that are hard or things that we can't wrap our minds around. Right? We we do have fatigue when it comes to that.
172
00:28:03.690 --> 00:28:10.370
Angela Young: We, as a country in the United States. I'm convinced we have fatigue when it comes to school shootings, for example.
173
00:28:10.830 --> 00:28:14.169
Angela Young: You know, when when we heard about Columbine in
174
00:28:14.350 --> 00:28:35.319
Angela Young: April of 1999, I believe it was. I'm pulling this back of my head. April 20, th of 99. Maybe so. I could be very wrong. But when we heard about Columbine the entire nation stopped right like we could not believe that this had happened. Everyone knew the names of the shooters. Everyone knew the story, you know, but here we are in 2025 and and
175
00:28:35.933 --> 00:28:53.160
Angela Young: mass shootings are happening daily. And and to most of us that might be a surprise. And you're probably sitting there going. No, they don't. But there's a website that you can go on and it will list you every mass shooting that happens in the country. And there are multiple ones daily. And and
176
00:28:53.480 --> 00:29:05.060
Angela Young: we've become fatigued to this, because now it's happened so much that we're like, okay, another mass shooting, you know not and don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone intends to react that way. You know, nobody is a
177
00:29:05.780 --> 00:29:26.119
Angela Young: most people are not cruel, heartless people, right? So nobody's going to sit there and be like. Oh, here we go again. But subconsciously, it's kind of what happens when we experience something over and over and over. And, as you said, it is that prolonged experience. So I do think it is, you know, natural human tendency to become fatigued. Now that said.
178
00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:37.210
Angela Young: please do not wait until someone at your organization burns out or disappears to then realize. Oh, crap! We weren't supporting them very well, were we? You know
179
00:29:37.370 --> 00:29:40.210
Angela Young: they were just enduring what you were giving them.
180
00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:53.475
Angela Young: but they deserve much more, you know, as people we deserve much more. So, for example, when I was going through cancer treatment, it was one thing for people to be like. Oh, my gosh! We're so sorry, and you know
181
00:29:54.060 --> 00:30:03.719
Angela Young: I was teaching at the time, and the principal that I had was absolutely amazing, gave me way more support above and beyond what I could have ever expected.
182
00:30:03.830 --> 00:30:17.220
Angela Young: And then, you know, once it became okay. Now I'm coming back to school, and I need these accommodations to accommodate for my immunocompromised status or my lymphedema, or my, what have you?
183
00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:44.969
Angela Young: It was kind of like, okay, now, what extra steps do we need to take, you know, and and I don't think it was on purpose. I think it's just human nature, right? So so that's something we as humans and as leaders, need to be aware of. Okay, we don't want to subconsciously portray this to our employees. So we need to to pause, and we need to reflect, and we need to find a way to kind of change the trajectory on that fatigue, you know, and do better.
184
00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:46.320
Marion: Hmm!
185
00:30:46.510 --> 00:30:51.839
Marion: I think that that such an interesting thought, because I think that that becomes
186
00:30:52.370 --> 00:30:56.599
Marion: wholly more problematic the bigger the organization gets
187
00:30:56.810 --> 00:31:02.719
Marion: when you're small and nimble and agile, and you have more ability to influence and shape.
188
00:31:04.060 --> 00:31:06.580
Marion: That's obviously amazing. Right.
189
00:31:07.010 --> 00:31:11.859
Marion: When you become when you're in a massive enterprise, and you're a cog and a whale.
190
00:31:12.060 --> 00:31:17.560
Marion: and these are your values. These are what you believe in, and you try to live
191
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:38.190
Marion: quite often. There's an inertia where you know what's the phrase using the Us. You can't fix City Hall right where you just become so beaten down by the fact that you can't implement the change that you know is necessary. You can't make these things happen. So you end up just kind of like giving up almost.
192
00:31:38.330 --> 00:31:48.870
Marion: And I think in this particular market that we're in right now, where there's so much fear about job loss. And and you know, recession and things like that.
193
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:55.869
Marion: People are sitting tight in roles that they're probably not happy in, and they're not getting that level of support in.
194
00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:59.350
Marion: or they're not able to offer that level of support.
195
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:09.709
Marion: So they they just put up and shut up, and the issue perpetuates. And that I think
196
00:32:10.010 --> 00:32:16.470
Marion: I think I mean this crap full stop. But I think, as again you get older, and your your values
197
00:32:16.590 --> 00:32:30.690
Marion: and your intentionality around these exact things, how to give people a much better employee experience how to truly enhance our environments, to be inclusive
198
00:32:31.900 --> 00:32:46.179
Marion: when you can't do that, when you don't have the organizational support to make that happen, or just people are so bummed out and checked out. They just don't have the drive anymore to try and push.
199
00:32:47.780 --> 00:32:54.690
Marion: This is where you see that that cataclysmic and outcome, the low engagement.
200
00:32:54.820 --> 00:33:14.580
Marion: the the you know, the quiet quitting, or you know, whatever we're calling it now, right like the the lack of productivity, the lack of care for others, because no one gives a shit about me. Why should I give a shit about anyone else. Like all of that, manifests and plays out, and I feel that that's where.
201
00:33:15.050 --> 00:33:20.599
Marion: certainly in some organizations not all. But I feel that that is rife right now.
202
00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:25.800
Marion: and is exacerbated again by the external environment.
203
00:33:27.210 --> 00:33:29.070
Danny Gluch: Yeah. And I I wonder.
204
00:33:29.180 --> 00:33:40.870
Danny Gluch: you know, thinking about that external environment? If it's it's, you know, sort of turned up to 11 here in the States, because so much more needs to be sort of tolerated.
205
00:33:41.010 --> 00:34:02.049
Danny Gluch: because our health insurance comes from our employment, and there is no guarantee that if I leave this situation where I am having to endure all of these things, and I'm not being accommodated. But at least I have my health insurance, and that's meeting some of these needs of my body and leaving
206
00:34:02.050 --> 00:34:19.799
Danny Gluch: doesn't guarantee that I'll have the same sorts of coverage, or that I'll be able to find a job soon enough to where there won't be a huge, expensive gap in coverage, too. And and it just just makes me sick thinking about the sort of like doubling up of
207
00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:27.609
Danny Gluch: why you would try to mask and tolerate and not be your real self, and ask for what you need.
208
00:34:27.770 --> 00:34:28.970
Danny Gluch: because of all that.
209
00:34:30.070 --> 00:34:35.460
Angela Young: I. You know it's a whole soapbox for me, the the health insurance
210
00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:48.079
Angela Young: scenarios in this country. So and I, we can't fix that, no matter how long we sit on this. Podcast, that's not something we can fix. But you know, as organizations, I'm going to give you 2 things you can do immediately.
211
00:34:48.270 --> 00:34:51.659
Angela Young: It's free, and it takes you 5 min. Are you ready?
212
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.490
Angela Young: You're going to let your recruiters know
213
00:34:55.690 --> 00:35:09.949
Angela Young: that they need to ask an additional question at every screening. And here's the question, would you prefer to have our 1st interview over Zoom, so that we can have live captions? Or would you prefer a phone call.
214
00:35:10.350 --> 00:35:18.040
Angela Young: Okay? The more you offer multimodal options for people, it automatically
215
00:35:18.860 --> 00:35:26.050
Angela Young: increases the accommodations that you're providing exponentially. And it's free. So
216
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:52.909
Angela Young: hey, you know. Got your resume. Would love to have a conversation with you about this role. How would you prefer that conversation to happen? Okay, that's the 1st thing you're going to do as an organization. Second thing, you're going to do as an organization congratulations. We'd like to offer you this role. Okay? Great. It's 3 days later, and you've chosen to accept this role as part of your onboarding process. Medical accommodations will be reaching out to you 1st to see if there's anything we can provide you
217
00:35:53.580 --> 00:36:01.759
Angela Young: for your time here. So you bake that right in at the beginning. The recruiter question 1st and the medical. So everyone
218
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:25.689
Angela Young: gets that question asked, no matter who they are, and everyone as a part of onboarding meets with medical accommodations. First, st that's how you solve 99% of any accommodations, issues that are going to come up for you. Period. It's 5 min, it's free, and it's just 2 questions and what that does for you number one. It automatically positions your organization
219
00:36:25.930 --> 00:36:44.640
Angela Young: as a safe space for anyone needing accommodations. It automatically positions your organization as someone who understands that accessibility needs to be shifted, left at. You know, any time, at any priority level, that the more you bake accessibility into the foundations the better off you're going to be
220
00:36:44.780 --> 00:37:05.520
Angela Young: it also positions you at the forefront of compliance. So before you even need to remediate for compliance or react to a compliance issue, you've already started having that conversation so that those compliance issues don't even come up. So your those 2 questions are, gonna save your organization. So much money in.
221
00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:21.879
Angela Young: you know, time off task legal fees, whatever you know whatever. Because, you know, you're thinking about how to support your employees 1st and foremost, and you're creating this as a culture shift and not just an initiative. A talk I give is about branding your
222
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:26.400
Angela Young: branding accessibility at your organization as an organizational brand
223
00:37:26.570 --> 00:37:49.950
Angela Young: versus just an initiative, because when people hear initiatives, it's like, Oh, crap! What extra work do I have to do now? But when accessibility becomes a brand at your organization, we do this phenomenally. At Navy, Federal. We have an accessibility Allies task force, you know, with people who support us in our accessibility needs. And you know we have done again shout out to Juanita, George, we have done.
224
00:37:49.950 --> 00:38:07.779
Angela Young: And the Enterprise accessibility program. We have done such a phenomenal job of this, and we continue to do this through, you know, amplifying our voices through awareness, through campaigns, through presence, at different organizational events, you know. And and it's
225
00:38:07.780 --> 00:38:08.850
Angela Young: it's it's
226
00:38:09.130 --> 00:38:15.610
Angela Young: seems daunting@firstst But it's actually pretty simple, you know, and you can start by those 2 questions.
227
00:38:15.610 --> 00:38:21.100
Danny Gluch: Yeah, I was going to say, those 2 questions are astounding, thinking as someone who
228
00:38:21.330 --> 00:38:24.999
Danny Gluch: wouldn't need accommodations. Hearing that
229
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:35.570
Danny Gluch: having someone say, Hey, they're gonna meet with you and just say, Oh, great! Let me take this meeting. Oh, you're asking these questions gives me the message of
230
00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:37.959
Danny Gluch: this is the culture here
231
00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:51.720
Danny Gluch: period. It's not that this is some form to fill out. It's not some, some bureaucratic process thing. It's the culture. Here is this. What a great way to start an employment
232
00:38:51.880 --> 00:39:19.359
Danny Gluch: like that's, and it was very inclusive. Not the like one size fits all of hey, for one size fits all we're doing this? Via zoom, it's would you like a phone call, or would you like this on Zoom? It's you know, we're gonna meet and ask the accommodations you might need. Not the, you know, we're giving you this desk and this computer, because these are the accommodations. You know, it's it solves all of those things that we were talking about before.
233
00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:24.850
Marion: Hmm! What it also does. I mean, the simplicity of that is
234
00:39:25.430 --> 00:39:29.529
Marion: phenomenal right? These are, as you say, they cost nothing, and they take.
235
00:39:29.530 --> 00:39:29.910
Danny Gluch: 5 min.
236
00:39:29.910 --> 00:39:32.500
Marion: And the impact is insurmountable.
237
00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:42.049
Marion: But what it really does under underpin to me. And we've talked about this a lot is the lack of knowledge and awareness
238
00:39:42.550 --> 00:39:49.459
Marion: of our people practitioners, whether it be ta L. And D, you know. Hr, whatever it might be right.
239
00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:55.819
Marion: The fact that that is so simple and basic common sense when you really think about it. Right?
240
00:39:56.950 --> 00:40:03.190
Marion: And yet here's a group of people, professionals, very experienced people, professionals. And they're going.
241
00:40:03.530 --> 00:40:04.770
Marion: Oh.
242
00:40:04.770 --> 00:40:06.159
Danny Gluch: Yeah, I never thought of that.
243
00:40:07.024 --> 00:40:07.889
Danny Gluch: Right?
244
00:40:08.270 --> 00:40:15.169
Angela Young: And that's the beauty of it. Like it's not. It's not something different, or it's not something unique. It's just how we do things here. This is just what we do.
245
00:40:15.170 --> 00:40:17.370
Marion: Absolutely. But what it you know
246
00:40:17.370 --> 00:40:24.949
Marion: is is that as an as a, as a, as an army of people, professionals, right as a collective as a profession.
247
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:26.899
Marion: We don't know this crap.
248
00:40:27.070 --> 00:40:30.599
Marion: We don't think about this crap, and yet everyone looks at us
249
00:40:30.730 --> 00:40:41.330
Marion: to have the answers and and guess what we don't train this stuff in Hr. School. We don't teach it in Mbas. We don't talk. We don't train it as part of our Phrs or
250
00:40:41.610 --> 00:40:47.150
Marion: Cipds, or whatever you know, school you buy into right like we don't, we don't.
251
00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:49.180
Marion: And yet.
252
00:40:49.940 --> 00:40:57.729
Marion: I think, as people professionals, everyone expects us to have the answers, and to have the knowledge, and to know what to do right? Because you're the people person you should know
253
00:40:58.200 --> 00:40:59.160
Marion: we don't.
254
00:40:59.330 --> 00:41:02.180
Marion: And that's why this stuff is not
255
00:41:02.901 --> 00:41:07.050
Marion: mainstay in organizations. That's why this stuff isn't happening.
256
00:41:07.750 --> 00:41:09.958
Marion: So we have to elevate
257
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.439
Marion: what we're doing as a community. Nobody's going to do it for us. We have to do it ourselves.
258
00:41:15.970 --> 00:41:18.510
Marion: How are we going to do that? How are we going to make?
259
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:23.330
Marion: Are we going to influence our organizations to do better and be better.
260
00:41:23.330 --> 00:41:23.910
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
261
00:41:24.460 --> 00:41:28.970
Angela Young: And that's say, look, I mean sorry, Danny.
262
00:41:28.970 --> 00:41:30.510
Danny Gluch: Oh, no go ahead! Go ahead! Ange!
263
00:41:30.690 --> 00:41:31.410
Angela Young: I mean.
264
00:41:31.730 --> 00:41:32.540
Angela Young: Look.
265
00:41:34.090 --> 00:41:47.459
Angela Young: please don't mistake whatever tone you hear in my voice, or anything that we've said to you today. As you know we're yelling at you, or we're telling you. You're not good enough like you don't know what you don't know until you know it right.
266
00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:48.359
Marion: So liquid.
267
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:50.870
Angela Young: So. So please just
268
00:41:51.180 --> 00:42:05.920
Angela Young: be patient with yourself. Give yourself Grace, and when you know better you do better, and that's it. And and you know, being that vulnerable leader will set you apart from other leaders
269
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:33.840
Angela Young: and saying to your employees, Hey, I realized I'm doing this, you know, this might not be the best course of action instead, here's what I'd like to try. You know, nobody is perfect, and I do truly believe that as humans, we all. Just do the best we can, and that's that's all you know, that's all the disabled population is asking, you know, is that, hey? Now you know what I need, and and you know, please, you know. Help me, or please support me, you know, or let's do this together. But
270
00:42:34.680 --> 00:42:37.170
Angela Young: the last thing I'd like to say is.
271
00:42:37.870 --> 00:42:45.880
Angela Young: I'm calling out a very dear friend of mine from Site improve Incataho. She always says, you know, accessibility is essential for some.
272
00:42:46.040 --> 00:42:50.730
Angela Young: but it's really helpful for everybody. So when you have
273
00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:58.220
Angela Young: a path, for you know, requesting accommodations, that's easy, and that's natural.
274
00:42:58.220 --> 00:43:22.910
Angela Young: You're not just essentially supporting your employees that need it. You're just helping everybody, you know, and that's all we're asking for. And also we're grateful that you're taking the time to learn how to do better, because that's what makes you a great leader, and that's what's going to set you apart. And that's why I still remember. You know, Stephanie, even though it's been 3 years or 4 years, you know, and that's why I still remember
275
00:43:22.910 --> 00:43:40.189
Angela Young: my principal who supported me through cancer, even though it's been 6 years, you know, because these are people that truly stood out as people who are making a difference, you know. So I mean, just keep that in mind. You know that all we're asking you to do is is once you, you know, just do better.
276
00:43:40.650 --> 00:44:02.239
Danny Gluch: I love that. And and I love that. You're stripping away some of those emotions that people might feel of like. Oh, shit! I have been not doing this as well as I would like. I thought I was. This turns out I wasn't, and and it's you're now we know better, and I think if there is hesitancy to put in
277
00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:13.269
Danny Gluch: questions like those 2 simple questions, it would be a really healthy thing to ask why, a number of times, and really get to the root of why, there's hesitancy around that.
278
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:22.939
Danny Gluch: because people are quick to do the the pride flags and the big inclusive marketing, you know, Tweet storms and all that stuff that they're doing.
279
00:44:23.250 --> 00:44:25.859
Danny Gluch: and they're they're not as
280
00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:37.940
Danny Gluch: ready and able to do the stuff that really matters. And I think, sitting down and asking, wait. Why wouldn't we just have someone from our team meet and talk about what accommodations they might need?
281
00:44:38.230 --> 00:44:42.439
Marion: Yeah, yeah. Going back to what Angela said earlier on.
282
00:44:42.570 --> 00:44:52.619
Marion: Don't talk to me about disability awareness, week, month, day, whatever. Right? If you can't even get me a standing desk.
283
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:53.540
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
284
00:44:53.540 --> 00:45:05.259
Marion: Do you know what I mean? Like? Don't don't even come at me with all that crap, if you can't even meet a very basic need. Right? So no a hundred percent, the performative needs to go.
285
00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:06.729
Danny Gluch: It really does.
286
00:45:07.060 --> 00:45:24.229
Angela Young: And you know what I'd like to also give a shout out to Gen. Z. Because Gen. Z. You all are where it's at. You are not letting performative actions slide anymore. You know, Gen. Z. Is holding people's feet to the fire like never before, that has never been done before. And
287
00:45:24.636 --> 00:45:30.450
Angela Young: I'm not a part of Gen. Z. But we won't talk about that too loud. But you know, you guys.
288
00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:49.320
Angela Young: right, you guys are, what are you talking about? I'm 26. Come on, you guys are where it's at. You know you are calling people out. You are not afraid to stand up and get loud. And that's what we need, because what orgs are doing is not sustainable.
289
00:45:49.490 --> 00:46:03.190
Angela Young: you know, if you are not being progressive and kind of catching up, you know, with the way hr is trending, or with the way onboarding is trending, or with the way hiring practices are now trending.
290
00:46:03.250 --> 00:46:24.660
Angela Young: you know, so you don't want your organization to be leave behind. So you kind of it's time to step up and step out right, and I say that to encourage you not to blame you, you know. Like, let's go. You know we can do this together. You've got so many resources out there like the elephant in the org. You know, where you can learn from so many amazing voices as to how to make this happen.
291
00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:27.150
Danny Gluch: No, and it's
292
00:46:27.470 --> 00:46:35.670
Danny Gluch: it's gonna improve your employer, brand. And I think every employer cares about their employer. Brand. What does it feel like to work here.
293
00:46:35.730 --> 00:46:52.119
Danny Gluch: What do other people think of when they think of? Do I want to work at that company and improving that brand is about just doing the right thing, and I think you were so great in calling that out where it's not. It's not about the marketing stuff. It's about what it's like to actually have the product.
294
00:46:52.120 --> 00:47:08.400
Danny Gluch: And we've all seen the wow that ad looks so great. And then you get the product. And it's it's crap, you know, make a good product, be a good employer. And and that's really what what I think you're giving amazing advice on. And you know it's it is hard.
295
00:47:09.090 --> 00:47:13.920
Danny Gluch: but once you know better, you can do better, and and I really think that's great.
296
00:47:14.490 --> 00:47:17.826
Angela Young: You know, the last thing I want to say is
297
00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:29.819
Angela Young: I read a book by Abby Wambach, who is a former Us. Women's National Team soccer, player, and her book is called Forward
298
00:47:30.346 --> 00:47:46.390
Angela Young: and we may have a signed copy. So be jealous. But anyway, right. I love her. One thing that she wrote about is how anytime she scored a goal. The very 1st thing she would do is start pointing to the people on the team who enabled her to get downfield to score that goal.
299
00:47:46.850 --> 00:47:51.070
Angela Young: and I never forgot that. So anytime
300
00:47:51.190 --> 00:48:08.462
Angela Young: personally that I find success, I'm shouting out the people who have helped me get there, as you've seen in this episode. I do this all the time, even with my colleagues like, if there's an initiative we're working on at work, even if somebody helped me carry boxes up from my car. I'm shouting out that person's name. So
301
00:48:08.750 --> 00:48:33.699
Angela Young: you know, last week or 2 weeks ago. Data Thon at Navy, Federal at the Winchester campus, Zach Pack. You were amazing at helping us unload all our stuff, you know, and helping us set up the space, and you took so much pressure off of us and made us feel so much better. You know about what was what was happening for the event. So you know, as a leader, you know. Yes, you're the leader, but you're not the smartest person in the room. Okay? And if you are the
302
00:48:33.700 --> 00:48:48.199
Angela Young: smartest person in the room, you need to find another room. Okay, because you don't grow when you're the smartest person in a room. So who are you calling out that supported you? Who are you calling out that along the way has really shaped and molded the amazing leader. You've become right.
303
00:48:48.630 --> 00:49:06.599
Angela Young: You need to do that in every arena, whether it's the soccer pitch or whether it's at your organizational events, or whether it's speaking on a podcast you need to be calling out the people who have supported you because it's critical for people to know the difference that they have made.
304
00:49:06.660 --> 00:49:20.090
Angela Young: because that's what keeps people around versus having people disappearing right from your org. That's what makes them feel valued is the fact that you call them out, and you amplify their names, and you speak their names in rooms where they are not right.
305
00:49:21.042 --> 00:49:42.059
Angela Young: A lot of the opportunities I've been given are because people have spoken my name loudly, Juanita, I'm looking at you most recently, you know, in rooms where they are not right? So so that's really necessary. And again, it's what's going to elevate you from a great leader to just, you know, the most
306
00:49:42.587 --> 00:49:51.550
Angela Young: I wanted a word. I totally lost the word. But the most unique, competent special leader that anyone has ever had.
307
00:49:51.550 --> 00:49:52.160
Danny Gluch: Yeah.
308
00:49:52.650 --> 00:49:53.610
Marion: Optional.
309
00:49:53.610 --> 00:49:54.270
Danny Gluch: That's amazing.
310
00:49:54.270 --> 00:50:01.430
Angela Young: Exceptional. That was the word I was looking for. Thank you. I had in my brain, and I couldn't even grab it. Thank you so much.
311
00:50:02.450 --> 00:50:03.020
Marion: Welcome.
312
00:50:03.020 --> 00:50:05.009
Marion: Oh, feel it pouring out of you.
313
00:50:05.010 --> 00:50:33.159
Danny Gluch: Yeah, I don't think there's anything to add to that. Thank you so much. That was amazing. And I know everyone loved listening to you, Dr. Young and great news. Everyone as the elephant in the org is working on a disability initiative where we're having some really tough conversations around organizations and disability and the experience of disabled folks trying to work here at different organizations.
314
00:50:33.370 --> 00:51:00.409
Danny Gluch: Dr. Young Angela has been one of our panel members, so we're going to be coming out with that as a collective with the performance innovation collective and the invisible condition. We've paired with them, and we're going to be coming out with a series of podcasts and a big sort of community action program after that later this summer. So please be on the lookout for that. I have no idea when Linkedin is going to
315
00:51:00.870 --> 00:51:23.289
Danny Gluch: put this episode across your timeline. It could be the day we release it. It could be 3 months after. I do not understand that algorithm, but be on the lookout. It's gonna be in the elephant in the org feed. So thank you, Ange, for being a part of this episode. This was amazing. As well as that big initiative we're doing to talk about disabilities.
316
00:51:24.080 --> 00:51:39.730
Angela Young: Thank you both so much. I really appreciate that you gave me the chance to be here today, you know, really appreciate that there was something about me that you know you felt your listeners needed to hear more of again. Everyone
317
00:51:40.140 --> 00:51:45.649
Angela Young: to wrap this up. Remember, let's see, diversity is presence.
318
00:51:45.670 --> 00:52:05.819
Angela Young: inclusion is practice. Don't forget that. Okay. Secondly, don't forget your 2 questions. Your recruiters are going to ask how people would like their phone screens and their interviews to occur, and then your onboarding team is going to set up a meeting with medical accommodations for absolutely every person you onboard prior to day. One of onboarding
319
00:52:06.165 --> 00:52:28.990
Angela Young: maybe the day before they're onboarding officially, or maybe the morning of it's their 1st meeting, you know. But you're going to get that stuff squared away. And then, thirdly, you're going to set yourself apart as a leader by creating a safe space, by asking questions, by being vulnerable yourself, and finally, by always speaking the names of people who support you along the way.
320
00:52:30.370 --> 00:52:31.170
Marion: Amen!
321
00:52:31.170 --> 00:52:48.320
Danny Gluch: Amen to that. You can find Angie's. And hopefully a list of people, she called out their links in the show notes. That'll be really fun. Thank you all so much for listening. Be sure to follow. Leave a 5 star review, and we'll see you next time.
322
00:52:49.520 --> 00:52:50.340
Angela Young: Bye.
