The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
AI, HR, WTF?? Welcome Back to The Elephant in the Org - Season 3 Starts NOW!
We’re back, baby! 🎉 Season 3 of The Elephant in the Org kicks off with a bang — and a little chaos.
Marion, Danny, and Cacha dive into:
- The HR scandal everyone’s pearl-clutching over (while ignoring the real workplace issues).
- Why HR burnout is at crisis levels — and nobody’s talking about it.
- What’s coming in our AI Trilogy: three straight episodes on how AI is reshaping trust, culture, and psychological safety at work.
Messy, spicy, unfiltered — exactly how you like us.
🎧 Listen now and let’s make work suck less. 🐘
🐘 Connect with Us:
🚀 Follow The Fearless PX on LinkedIn: The Fearless PX
📩 Got a hot take or a workplace horror story? Email Marion, Cacha, and Danny at elephant@thefearlesspx.com
🎧 Catch every episode of The Elephant in the Org: All Episodes Here
🚀Your Hosts on Linkedin:
💬 Like what you hear?
Subscribe, leave a ★★★★★ review, and help us bring more elephants into the light.
🎙️ About the Show
The Elephant in the Org drops new episodes every two weeks starting April 2024.
Get ready for even more fearless conversations about leadership, psychological safety, and the future of work.
🎵 Music & Production Credits
🎶 Opening and closing theme music by The Toros
🎙️ Produced by The Fearless PX
✂️ Edited by Marion Anderson
⚠️ Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations' official policy or position.
Season 3 EP 1 Kick Off Episode Transcript
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Danny Gluch: We're back. Welcome back to the elephant in the org season. 3 baby.
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Marion: Whoa!
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Danny Gluch: Wait! What's up?
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Danny Gluch: Baby elephant called?
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Danny Gluch: Is it like a cub?
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Cacha Dora: No.
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Marion: Baby elephant. I don't know.
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Danny Gluch: Oh, jeez.
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Marion: Okay.
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Danny Gluch: What! Starting off with a bigger.
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Cacha Dora: It's a calf. I just googled it.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, it seems too big to be a calf. But that's okay.
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Danny Gluch: I'm not a scientist. Welcome back to Season 3, everyone. I'm Danny glutch. I'm joined by my co-host Kasha! Dora.
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Cacha Dora: Hello!
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Danny Gluch: And Marian Anderson.
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Marion: Hi hi hi hi.
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Danny Gluch: And we are back from our summer hiatus and we are back. We've already recorded a bunch of episodes. We are so excited for what season 3 is going to have for everybody.
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Danny Gluch: But 1st let's catch up. What did you all do for your little respite? Break renewal, refreshing.
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Cacha Dora: All, all the good summer things. Marion's like. What are those words? I don't know her.
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Marion: Yeah, I was tied to either doing phd, thematic analysis and coding or editing rethinkability, which we'll come to in a second. But yeah. My summer was basically spent behind a screen at a desk questioning my life choices.
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Cacha Dora: Nothing like it.
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Danny Gluch: Existential crisis in the middle of summer love it.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, I empathize with Marion heavily. My summer's been heavy in my master's program and
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Cacha Dora: spending a lot of time in front of the computer. But also I feel like I always joke. It's the that triangle of like social life study time and that other thing in the triangle. I can't remember. Maybe it's like relationships or something where you can only home or something I don't remember, but like where you can only pick 2 of the triangle. Whatever you put in this triangle you can only pick 2 of, and that was my summer, so it was always a robbing Peter to pay Paul, if you will, but also wrapping up the summer feeling
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Cacha Dora: like a lot of accomplishments, have happened in a really good way. So worth it.
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Marion: The interweb shows me that there were some pictures of busty pirate wench, Kasiale.
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Cacha Dora: I? Oh, ale! That's a stretch cider. We're a cider girl, but I do like the Ales, too. But yes, I did get again robbing Peter to pay Paul. I chose to be fun in social costuming, and then had to crank out papers like in a 4 h time, span after work. So
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Cacha Dora: so.
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Marion: Yeah.
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Cacha Dora: Happened, but I paid for it.
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Marion: Well, I have to say the the one the one big payoff I suppose, that I've had this summer is my patio. All the things that I planted like in the spring or early summer have been blooming. So like I have. So we have a Mojito garden. We have a big tub of mint. So basically.
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Cacha Dora: You say Mint.
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Marion: Mojito central around here. Colin makes a good mojito also. I've got Basil coming at my ears, or Basil, as you Americans call it. And so I,
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Marion: Basil, does sound cooler. Basil.
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Marion: Yeah, Basil, it's not Basil faulty. It's Basil faulty, and I've perfected a cocktail called Basil Martini, and it's like basil mint, lime, juice, vodka, all muddled with some like sugar syrup and a Martini. Oh, my God, okay.
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Cacha Dora: I'm gonna need the recipe because I want to make it for me. And my friends, Danny looks like he's literally just put a lime in his mouth. You can't see it, friends.
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Cacha Dora: No, I like lines.
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Marion: No, this is a good cocktail. Send you the recipe. It's really good.
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Cacha Dora: Tasty, tasty.
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Marion: You, Danny, what were you?
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, what you got going on? Friend.
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Danny Gluch: I went to Wyoming and fished, and I actually caught something for once.
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Cacha Dora: Hooray!
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Marion: A cold, a cold.
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Danny Gluch: No, I caught a fish I caught like 7 fish. It was amazing.
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Marion: Set this, like menus, are actual.
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Danny Gluch: No no big.
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Cacha Dora: Who were they?
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Danny Gluch: One was like, Oh, it's it's whatever you can't tell how big it
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Danny Gluch: video calls don't do. Well, there. There was one that was like 8 9 inches. You know, not tiny, but not not a big fish. Little creek in Wyoming, really, really beautiful, went hiking. My brother visited from Rhode Island for the 1st time with his 3 girls, and we all went to Disneyland.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Cacha Dora: A magical time, I hope.
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Danny Gluch: It was, it was.
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Danny Gluch: were fun, no kid. So there were 5 children from 3 to 11. No one had a meltdown the entire day we were there from 7 Am. Until 11.
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Cacha Dora: I think you need to hit up the Guinness World Book of Records. That's incredible.
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Danny Gluch: I should have played the lottery instead.
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Marion: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: That was, that was some good luck. Yes, it was
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Danny Gluch: no, it was it wasn't luck, it was a. It was planning and flexibility and encouraging good attitudes, and we did really well.
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Marion: Amazing.
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Marion: Oh, that's good! That sounds like fun. And now it's fall. Now it's autumn. I can't believe this summer go.
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Marion: I don't know. It's still hot here in Southern California, so still hot here in Arkansas, who.
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Danny Gluch: I'm by the coast. Enough it was, and it was still like 85 degrees. It was. It was pretty hot.
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Marion: Yeah, anyway.
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Danny Gluch: So the other thing was, July was a busy one for us. We well, I mean we it was really all year we we started in.
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Cacha Dora: Prep into.
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Danny Gluch: Last winter, and then we we all got on board in January for rethinkability, which.
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Marion: Was.
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Danny Gluch: And if you all haven't listened to those podcasts really fantastic, we had some really special panelists come on. And it was. It was just such a labor, but a labor where it
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Danny Gluch: of love, amazing work. And it was.
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Marion: Oh, my God!
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Cacha Dora: It's amazing.
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Danny Gluch: Work.
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Cacha Dora: It's amazing what happens when you you spawn an idea. And everyone agrees with the idea and says, You know what I and and this right? And they just keep adding to this idea. And what? How do we make this idea better? How do we make this idea better? And this it's almost like coalition forms of all these people, with all these great ideas. And suddenly you're looking around, going.
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Cacha Dora: What? How? This is incredible like? Not even how did we get here? But just kind of like pinch me? Gratitude of all these incredible minds of people giving their time, their emotional energy.
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Cacha Dora: And what an incredible series that we were able to put together with just some wonderful human beings.
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Marion: Absolutely, it's definitely been definitely heavy lift of work, but so worth it, so gratifying. The feedback's been incredible. You know. Hr practitioners listening and and saying, Do you know what.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, that.
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Marion: And I think just given like
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Marion: practitioners the the grace to say, do you know what it's okay? You don't know. None of us do. We're all just trying to figure this shit out together, but don't feel that you have to wing it just for the sake of winging it right. I think just even that in itself has been incredibly liberating. And yeah, like
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Marion: the the level of talent and expertise.
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Marion: That has come into this project, and culminating in our virtual summit or free summit, which is happening next month at the end of October, October 28, th through 30th
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Marion: And there's some amazing sessions in there that people can sign up. For you know that really span a massive range across disability, ability, inclusion. And so, you know, if you haven't checked it out already. I would recommend you have a look at rethinkhyphen ability.com. All the information is there? It's free. It's going to give you all the tools, all the fields.
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Marion: You've got incredible practitioners on there. So absolutely, if if you are in the Hr space or leadership, or just generally a human being that wants to do better and be a good ally. Absolutely. Get your calendar marked, and come and join us. Rethinkability.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, absolutely.
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Marion: Hmm.
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Danny Gluch: So that's not the last. You all will hear about rethinkability. It's going to come up
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Danny Gluch: again. Be on the lookout, and be sure to go on, Linkedin, and give it a follow that way. You don't miss anything.
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Marion: Absolutely.
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Danny Gluch: So while we were away. Oh, shit! What happened there were. Oh, my goodness! The Coldplay concert! CEO and Cpo is, I swear, to goodness! It was one of the most like piercing little meme news stories I've ever experienced.
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Cacha Dora: The amount of memes that, like.
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Danny Gluch: Matter, like.
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Cacha Dora: It was.
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Danny Gluch: It, didn't. You didn't have to just be in Hr. Or like in Linkedin like Ari. My 11 year old daughter knew about it like my parents knew about it. That's like I can't think of.
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Cacha Dora: It, didn't. It? Didn't live in Linkedin.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, it was. Didn't live in Linkedin.
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Cacha Dora: And then and then the company went and went. You know what let's feed into this momentum. Let's hire Gwyneth Paltrow to be our momentary spokesperson, like, you know, you know, my 90 year old grandmother knew about this.
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Danny Gluch: Oh!
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Cacha Dora: Because it's just one of those things where I think it's spanned the scope like it's on the news like it's on all of your social media feeds, Linkedin, not like even your. It's just incredible the amount of
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Cacha Dora: scope and scale that this little.
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Marion: Yeah.
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Cacha Dora: Moment in time, right like this couple seconds, where, if if one behavior had been different, if one action had been different, no one would have known any better. But it
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Cacha Dora: it got leaned into. And then people were feeding the image into AI, and like you've got, like all these new pairings of weird couples that shouldn't exist. And yeah, people named the heck out of it.
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Marion: Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely one of those
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Marion: moments in time, for I can't think of a better phrase. But like, here's the thing. So I actually wrote about this on Linkedin as well. And it it got a fair amount of attention, because.
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Marion: you know, firstly, these are people's lives right like, come on.
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Cacha Dora: Okay.
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Marion: Yes, everyone's laughing and poking fun and da da right. But it's people's lives.
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Cacha Dora: Realities are crashing for right.
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Marion: Yeah. But here's the thing that really pissed me off right was like
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Marion: all of these kind of like old school Hr. Practitioners like getting up in their soapbox. And they're like, you know, bitching about how you know you can't. You can't be
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Marion: I fraternizing, you know, in the profession in your area. Honestly, I was like.
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Marion: have you not got better things to do right like? Here's here's the the practitioners, you know, that I know that are down here trying to hold down psychological safety and get businesses through really crazy external times, and dealing with all sorts of stuff like layoffs and fear around AI, and and whistle blowing, and all of that like we're dealing with that shit right.
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Marion: You've got time to be like twitching your neck curtains, and like, you know, having lots to say about, you know, extramarital affairs at the end of the day, as I said in Linkedin, cheating is absolute shite right, and if you cheat, you deserve everything that you get. But
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Marion: that's between you and your partner, or you and your God, or whoever else right like that is not for everyone in the Hr. Granny to jump on in the bandwagon and and get their tights in a tangle about it. So I had quite a strong reaction to that one, certainly from a professional standpoint, like just everybody. There's nothing to see here. They they screwed up. Let's just like get back to the day job, because really this is ridiculous.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Marion: Hmm.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, the it does show a difference between that sort of shift between traditional administrative. Hr, just like, no, you just don't fraternize. That's you, you know. And the the more strategic of like, okay, how are we gonna handle damage control? And, you know, go forward with it and and not just, you know, fire someone, but like, really help the organization process through being, you know, being in the.
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Cacha Dora: It's not just gossip, right? It's there. There's a lot more to it than just like pointing and laughing. Yeah.
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Marion: Yeah. And I think what really rips mine in, as we say in Glasgow, is that
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Marion: you know it. It feeds into that stereotype, that perpetual stereotype of Hr. Being the the policy and procedure police, you know, being the relationship police like.
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Marion: off with that already, you know, we're trying to to change that narrative. We're trying to really position ourselves with our place in a business right, and show our worth and show our credibility. And you all have just taken us back.
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Cacha Dora: For you.
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Marion: 10 years with that crap so like no, I I that just wound me right up to be honest. So.
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Danny Gluch: Another Banger from the Uk. This time 52% of professionals in the Uk. Of Hr. Professionals in the Uk have experienced burnout since 2020 and one in.
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Marion: Sherlock.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, and one in 3 are considering leaving the industry entirely. So just like I'm gonna do something other than Hr
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Danny Gluch: numbers were big. But then I was like.
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Danny Gluch: Oh, no, I just kind of make sense.
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Cacha Dora: But like, when you think about it, right? Like, it makes complete sense. Because since 2020, what's happened since 2020 that these are poor Hr. Teammates and compatriots have been dealing with.
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Cacha Dora: You've got your your hybrid return to work your remote. They've had all of the work like work location stuff just not just one piece in and of itself managing policies due to Covid. To begin with, where they were having to really play the policy police. There you have
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Cacha Dora: all of the layoffs that have been ex. People have been experiencing across the Industry Board, obviously primarily in tech, but truly across the board, so our Hr. Teams have just been beaten with bats
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Cacha Dora: for years.
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Marion: Yeah.
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Cacha Dora: And like, even like, even in my my academic career one of my classmates in one of our discussion board posts we were talking about a subject around equity, and they mentioned that they worked in Hr. And they would never work in Hr again.
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Cacha Dora: So it's like, you know. And and this is, you know, a small microcosm, obviously. But the experience that people have had where they've really had to put them been. They've been placed in positions where.
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Cacha Dora: beyond uncomfortable
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Cacha Dora: like, I honestly was kind of surprised that the number wasn't higher. But also I feel like if they were to do that same report in the United States. That number would be higher because you do have more work protections in in the Uk. And in Europe than you do here, so to.
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Marion: Difference when it.
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Cacha Dora: No.
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Marion: Stuff that I'm telling you. That makes no difference. And here's.
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Cacha Dora: I don't know how that's not calming.
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Marion: Yeah, it's and it shouldn't be like as this is defcom one
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Marion: right? Like the alarm is sounding. This is this shit is serious. And you know I had a a sort of realization, I guess, kind of earlier in the summer, and I I posted about this on Linkedin myself, where
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Marion: I was experiencing. I'm not going to say burnout, because burnout has got very specific meaning, and I think it gets used incorrectly often.
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Cacha Dora: It gets overused in the wrong way. Yeah.
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Marion: Yeah, but I'm certainly gonna say that I was experiencing a high degree of stress.
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Marion: and I came home one night, had a glass of wine, got in the bathtub and cried for an hour, and
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Marion: I reflected on how hard it is to be an Hr. Practitioner these days, and it is no wonder to me that there's so many people leaving the profession. Because, do you know what it's shit right? We are the junk drawer of the organization. Everything gets thrown at us. And right now
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Marion: that, plus the external environment, plus all of the things that are happening with layoffs, everyone's fearful engagements at its lowest transparency and trust is through the floor. Psychological safety. What's that? Right? Like? It's bad. And who is carrying the emotional weight of that?
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Marion: It's your Hr team right? And
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Marion: that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole, because that really got me thinking about myself and about my peers, and how bad things are. And I actually came across another study that came out of the Uk. The Hr. Mental well-being report conducted by
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Marion: a couple of clinical psychologists.
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Marion: one being Dr. Joe Burrow, who will be appearing on our podcast later in the season sneak preview. But they conducted a study and a lot of very alarming statistics coming out there, one of the scariest being that Hr. Professionals are 2 and a half times more likely than anyone else to have depression.
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Marion: So it's but it is bad, and
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Marion: no one's talking about it apart from
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Marion: Dr. Joe. And you know, and us, yeah, well, we talk about it constantly. But but you know I say, no one's talking about it. It's now being talked about, and you know clearly these articles and these studies, and I think this is just the beginning. But yeah, it's
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Marion: this is this is.
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Marion: this is a big, big, big, big thing. This is a huge red flag, and and we need to be really screaming from the rooftops because people are leaving our profession in droves, and you know what
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Marion: don't blame them because it sucks.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: it's a tough one, and that's coming later in the season. 218
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Danny Gluch: in season 3. We're going to be starting off big and different this time. Marion. What do we have coming up with? Season 3.
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Marion: Yeah, we wanted to start with a bang. Right? Not just, you know, easing it gently back in, you know none of this. Just like softly, softly, chatter. But let's get down to the meat and potatoes.
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Marion: And what is the biggest disruption that's happening in organizations right now?
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Danny Gluch: Coldplay Concerts.
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Marion: Apart from Coldplay concerts moving on is that
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Marion: it's the AI revolution, right? There's no escape. It's everywhere. And you know, I
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Marion: it felt like a really good way for us to start the beginning of season. 3.
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Marion: With 3 dedicated episodes looking at AI revolution in the workplace from 3 very different angles. And it's not just about the tech. It's the human piece, right? That's what we're all about. And it's all about, you know, how is this impacting jobs. How is it shifting power, dynamics and rewriting, that unspoken or spoken psychological contract between employers and employees?
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Marion: And it's happening at a pace that none of us can really comprehend. Right? It's nuts. So yeah. Season 3 3 episodes, all dedicated to AI, and we've got some really cool people coming up. I'm super excited about that. Our friend Aubrey Ralph is back, came on rethinkability.
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Marion: She's an attorney. She's a founder business owner of the Scrappy Girl project, and she ran a very interesting social experiment earlier in the year related to AI and Linkedin. And you're not going to want to miss this one. Listeners. It's brilliant, and then we in the second of the trilogy we have Felix Mitchell, who is a co-CEO
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Marion: of a company called Instant Impact, their Talent Acquisition Tech company.
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Marion: He also hosts an amazing podcast as well. And Hr related. And we are getting into the whole thing around AI psychological safety layoffs. And really, where is this all going, and and how is it impacting the human experience at work?
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Marion: And then, lastly, we have a very old friend of mine known each other for about a gazillion years. Mark Evans. He is a serial entrepreneur and a fractional chief AI. Officer from Scotland as well, and he recently wrote a piece around brain raw and skill pipelines in organizations. And how AI is really kind of exacerbating a lot of those issues for our younger entries to the workplace. So yeah.
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Marion: cool way to start off. Season 3.
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Marion: It's so exciting.
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Cacha Dora: And we have so many other guests, too. It'll be really exciting. Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: I just saw a graph that made me think of Mark Evans work where it was showing the overall usage of open AI by by like week.
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Danny Gluch: and there was a huge drop off the beginning of June.
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Danny Gluch: and someone was like, what? What? Why did it drop off at the beginning of June. Is this really worrying? Was there a competitor? It's like no school was out for summer.
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Cacha Dora: Not for me and Kasha. It wasn't.
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Danny Gluch: That's your own fault.
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Danny Gluch: But it really thank you
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Danny Gluch: that you know his, his concern that AI is atrophying the skills and the critical thinking, and the problem solving of the future workforce, I think, is extremely alarming.
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Marion: This is going to be a good one. Very timely conversation. It really is.
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Danny Gluch: And.
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Marion: And 2.
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Danny Gluch: Everyone.
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Marion: 2 Scots.
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Danny Gluch: Most importantly to Scottish people. So like 8% of the population is going to be able to understand that podcast because of the accents, but you know it'll still be a worthwhile conversation. We'll have to add closed captions.
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Marion: We're inclusive. We will have closed captions to our podcast,
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Danny Gluch: But it's gonna be a great season. As Kasha was saying, it's not just these 3 episodes. We're gonna have lots of really great episodes. So be sure to subscribe so that you get all of them downloaded onto your phone or computer as we release them.
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Danny Gluch: And we're really excited to hear your feedback. If you're interested or have ideas for other topics, please email us at elephant@thefearlesspx.com, or send us a link on Linkedin or a message on Linkedin, and be sure to register for that October summit on rethink, dash, ability.com
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Danny Gluch: anything else, ladies.
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Cacha Dora: Now let's get started.
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Cacha Dora: Season.
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Danny Gluch: Nailed this one. Take swoosh.
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Marion: Woo.
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Danny Gluch: Back.
