The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
ReThink Ability Episode 6 - The Real Disability? Workplace Ignorance About Equity, Empathy, and Basic Human Decency
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
If your DEI strategy can’t even get someone a standing desk, we’ve got bigger problems.
In this bold and unfiltered episode, host Danny Gluch sits down with three powerhouse professionals who know what it’s like to advocate for equity — not just in theory, but in real life, in real workplaces, with real consequences. Together, they unpack the systemic ignorance disabled employees often face — and the everyday empathy that could fix it.
Pearl Brady – DEI practitioner and inclusion strategist with over 15 years of experience
Ashley Kera – Talent leader, coach, and founder of Kera Coaching & Consulting
Lia Seth – Director of People at Cylinder and self-proclaimed Accessibility Queen
Together, they tackle:
- The emotional and professional toll of asking for “reasonable” accommodations
- How fear, assumptions, and untrained managers weaponize policy
- Why trust is more powerful than paperwork
- What real equity looks like (spoiler: it’s not one-size-fits-all)
- The $0 solutions organizations are still ignoring
- And the golden rule we’re apparently still not following: Just be a decent human being.
This is the episode HR should be required to listen to. Because equity isn’t just a strategy — it’s how you treat people.
Rethink Ability is a limited seven-part podcast series that explores the often unseen dimensions of disability in the workplace — and what it takes to build environments where everyone can thrive.
Brought to you by The Fearless PX and the team behind The Elephant in the Org, in collaboration with ReThink Ability, Invisible Condition, and The Performance Innovation Collective, the series centers the lived experiences of disabled employees, HR leaders, and workplace change-makers. Across seven honest, human, and action-driven episodes, we unpack the gap between intention and impact and explore how to bridge it.
This is a call to rethink assumptions, redesign systems, and reshape culture.
If you’re tired of one-size-fits-all policies and hungry for real change, you’re in the right place.
📩 Got a hot take or a workplace horror story? Email us at elephant@thefearlesspx.com
🚀 Your Hosts on LinkedIn
- 🐘 Marion Anderson — https://www.linkedin.com/in/marionandersonpx
- 🐘 Danny Gluch — https://www.linkedin.com/in/dgluch
- 🐘 Cacha Dora — https://www.linkedin.com/in/cachadora
💬 Like what you hear?
Follow/subscribe so you don’t miss an episode — and if this one hit home, leave a ★★★★★ review to help more people find the show.
🎙️ About the Show
The Elephant in the Org drops new episodes every two weeks starting April 2024 — fearless conversations about leadership, psychological safety, and the future of work.
🎵 Music & Production Credits
🎶 Opening and closing theme music by The Toros
🎙️ Produced by The Fearless PX
✂️ Edited by Marion Anderson
⚠️ Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations' official policy or position.
Topics: employee surveys, listening culture, trust, people analytics, psychological safety, employee voice, ...
🎙 Episode 6 – Rethink Ability
“The Real Disability? Workplace Ignorance About Equity, Empathy, and Basic Human Decency”
🟡 If your DEI strategy can’t get someone a standing desk, we’ve got bigger problems.
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Danny Gluch: well, welcome back everyone. I'm your host, Danny Gluch, and we are joined by some amazing panelists. Today we have Pearl Brady.
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Pearl Brady: Hi, everyone. My name is Pearl Brady.
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Danny Gluch: We have Ashley. Kera.
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Ashley Kera: Hi.
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Danny Gluch: And we have Leah S. 8.
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Lia Seth: Hey? Thanks for having us.
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Danny Gluch: And today's topic is, I think, really prevalent because it's not just in the workplace. It's kind of everywhere. It's the Us. Versus them mentality when
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Danny Gluch: disabled people, whether it's permanent or ongoing temporary disabilities, attempting to seek accommodations and
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Danny Gluch: a way to function in the world.
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Danny Gluch: and then a society and workplaces that treat like any accommodation is a huge cost and a burden, and that attitude that comes and is very oppositional. And we wanted to bring people together to talk about this. And how can we overcome this? How can we navigate from both sides, taking on an attitude that is more accommodating and less adversarial and creating processes and systems that are beneficial to everyone, and allow people to
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Danny Gluch: find meaningful work that they can enjoy doing with their lives. So with that being said.
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Danny Gluch: what are some of the like nightmare stories that you guys have encountered where you're trying to, whether it's, you know, asking for leave or an accommodation at work that you've heard of or encountered yourself. That, just.
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Danny Gluch: you know, leaves your jaw on the floor. I know, Leah, you've told me some that are pretty unbelievable.
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Lia Seth: I mean they they might be unbelievable to some, but I feel like, for for those of us who are, you know, have lived it. It's almost like
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Lia Seth: par for the course, for better or worse, mostly for worse, just because this should not be the norm. But it really is. I've dealt with managers who will, you know, say things like, Oh, well, if this employee, you know, gets an accommodation or goes on leave, how's that fair to everyone else.
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Lia Seth: and I have to tell them. Well, how is it fair to this employee if you don't give them what they need? That's like, okay, I give all my employees a laptop except this person. Why aren't they performing? Because they don't have the basics of what they need? People need different things. I think so many managers, so many employers just forget that they think everyone should start at the same baseline, and if you can't keep up, then
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Lia Seth: you aren't good enough, or you're not a fit, and that's just not the case.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. Oof.
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Pearl Brady: Absolutely. And a lot of times. There's a huge misconception about, you know, basic accommodations. And you know what they are, what people might need and how much they cost. In a previous career. I worked for performing Arts Union and I worked with a lot of our members who are working in, you know, small, small theaters all throughout the Us. And you know sometimes they would just have really easy things that they would need to accommodate their disability like
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Pearl Brady: they would need to be on book for an additional couple of days, because they have. You know, they had a traumatic brain injury and memorization takes longer than it used to, and you know, when they would approach the company about it like
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Pearl Brady: the company would just not know what to do like. They wouldn't know how to handle it. And people aren't trained on this, and so they will call me. And they were like, Well, I don't know what to do? What am I supposed to do to accommodate this person? I was like, well, what did they ask for? And they were like, well, they needed to be on book for 2 more days. And I'm like, Okay, can you have them be on book for 2 more days, and then they'd be like, well.
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Pearl Brady: but everyone has to be off book by this day. And I was like, Okay, but like, could you give that person 2 more days and like you would just kind of see the process where their brain was kind of working. And then they were like, oh.
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Pearl Brady: yes, it's like great. You have accommodated their disability. Congratulations, you know, and it's people so often make things way more complicated than they need to be, you know, or they assume like, oh, well, this, this disabled performer is going to need XY and Z. Things. And it's like, Okay, have you talked to them?
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Pearl Brady: And they're like, Well, no, I can't talk to them about this, and I was like, No, you need to talk to them about this, because just because somebody uses a wheelchair doesn't mean they always need to use a wheelchair, you know some people use it occasionally. Some people need it all the time. What does that person say that they need, and like
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Pearl Brady: people just have no idea that they can have conversations about this. And I know that a lot of people have really good intentions, and like. They don't want to say the wrong thing, and I hear that. But at the same time, like, if you're concerned about saying the wrong thing is making it impossible for somebody else to do their job. Well, that's a problem. And you need to figure out a way on your side to fix that, because accommodations need to be a conversation. You cannot assume that someone needs something.
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Pearl Brady: and
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Pearl Brady: you know I had so many of those conversations where producers were like, oh, this is really easy. And it's like, yeah, just talk to the person. They know what they need.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, is it a lack of experience, a lack of skill? What is keeping people? Is it just an uncomfortability around disabilities like, what's keeping people from having these very necessary conversations that seem
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Danny Gluch: obviously necessary. Are they misunderstanding like their their legal rights? Or are they like? Oh, no! This is like a hipaa like
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Danny Gluch: I don't know what hipaa is. I'm not a a doctor or attorney.
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Pearl Brady: I mean, I think it's
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Pearl Brady: potentially all of the above you know, there, there is very little training about disability generally, and especially asking for reasonable accommodations and fulfilling people's requests for reasonable accommodations.
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Pearl Brady: You know I had a job where I asked for a specific accommodation, and my employer decided that I actually was going to get something completely different that I didn't actually need. And so it actually made it harder to do my job with their accommodation, and I went back to them. And I was like, this isn't what I need. What I need is this totally different thing. And they're like, well, we're not willing to do that. But we are willing to do this. So figure out a way to make it work.
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Pearl Brady: And I'm like, that's that's not. That's not how this works.
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Pearl Brady: You know. And I I also think it's really important for employers to have you know, legal counsel that is skilled in understanding this. You know the Ada is
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Pearl Brady: pretty wide ranging, and you know folks need to know what their legal obligations are, so that they don't unintentionally violate the Ada, and then open themselves up to any kind of legal liability. You know I'm not a lawyer. I've been around lawyers my entire career, but I know one thing about lawyers, and then that it's that they don't like risk. So anything you can do to avoid risk is always a good thing.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, absolutely.
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Ashley Kera: I also think it's fear on both sides. The employers are afraid to be sued. They don't know what to say. Managers. They don't receive the training. They honestly, they probably need talking points when someone comes to them. They don't know what to do. It's, you know, like a deer in headlights, and then a lot of employees, particularly in some environments such as professional services. Where I manage people, they're afraid. What are the repercussions? They really think this is going to end my career. I mean.
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Ashley Kera: it may be a small accommodation, and they may think, Oh, it's really a small accommodation like I just need a little bit more remote work. But then you have the return to work, to office policies that are still a point of contention. And
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Ashley Kera: people think that they're taking the, you know. They get it easier than others, and they worry about their advancement opportunities. So there, I think it's just
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Ashley Kera: a lot of assumptions, a lot of fear, a lot of lack of education and training.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, a a lot of assumptions.
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Danny Gluch: And and yeah, so if if we were to, you know, I've done a lot of learning and development in my days. What would we train on? What would be your 1st thing you would focus on on wanting to train these people to have these conversations, and to be accommodating, and not, you know, doing these assumptions. And and you know.
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Danny Gluch: assuming that they that they're a big cost to the organization, where would you start the training? Leah
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Danny Gluch: sounded like you wanted.
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Lia Seth: I mean, this might be controversial, but I feel like the training needs to start with empathy. It seems so basic like I think so many people would say, Oh, well, they need better training on the law. They need better training on understanding, you know, the definition of accommodations. They do need all those things. But the 1st thing is just remembering that the person sitting across from you is
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Lia Seth: another person that is always step. One is just thinking, okay, I'm an employer. My employee is asking for to Ashley's point, like being able to work from home more often, or working remotely.
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Lia Seth: what is the reason they might be asking for this like, let's let's approach with curiosity. Let's approach with empathy. Let's instead of just saying like, well, you know, corporate said that we're all in office 4 days a week. So that's the end of that.
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Lia Seth: Well, take a second. Think about what it might be, and it it? Maybe it's disability. Maybe it's it could be any number of things. Maybe it's
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Lia Seth: caregiving for an aging parent. It could be something as simple as like, Hey, I need to work from home, because, like, there's a lot of contract work happening on my house, and I need to be home to supervise it if they have questions. But, like, I'm still online all the time.
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Lia Seth: And sometimes people will, just to Pearl's point, jump to these conclusions, make these assumptions like, oh, well, they're going to do this because they don't really want to work, or they're going to ask for these things because I know this about them. It has to start with that empathy and that conversation. I think that's
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Lia Seth: that's training number one to me.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, that's that's really good. The Ted lasso. Be curious, not judgmental.
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Danny Gluch: Absolutely. Ashley. What do you think.
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Ashley Kera: I would also say people need to know the definition like what constitutes a disability. I have encountered so many senior leaders, they have no idea. So if they hear someone needs accommodations, and sometimes they know the reason they go. No, that can't be the case. They're fine, like they have severe depression. Now they're fine. They didn't even know that was a disability they assume it has to be physical.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Lia Seth: Or they assume physical disabilities all look a certain way, I mean, when I was in my early twenties
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Lia Seth: no one saw me as someone disabled. I mean now that I'm in my mid late thirties, people still don't really see me that way. But in my early twenties, definitely not. I actually bought a cane that I didn't entirely need just as an indicator, because I was like, I need some sort of visible marker when I'm riding the bus to work. So people know that I need to sit down because I cannot stand for 40 min on a bus. I will pass out
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Lia Seth: the 1st time I took cane into the office. People treated it like it was like a Halloween costume. I'm like, oh, no, I need this. This is for my stability. This is for my my bad joints, which don't connect to each other the right way. No one really knew what to do with that, so people would either try to make a joke about it or ignore it completely. Neither one of those is great.
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Lia Seth: but in terms of accommodations.
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Lia Seth: I was early enough in my career that I didn't even know what to ask for, but no one checked in with me either.
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Pearl Brady: I think that's really the big thing is just have a conversation with people like just talk to them. Because, you know, there, there are so many situations where, like a tiny little change, will make such a huge difference, you know, like, if somebody has to take public transportation
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Pearl Brady: to work, and you know their disability makes it really hard to stand for long periods of time. Can we adjust their work hours a little bit so that they're not coming and going during rush hour. You know they work the same number of hours just at slightly different times, to make it easier, you know, or like for me. I have a rare genetic disease that has kind of a ridiculous name, and when I tell people about it, they like
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Pearl Brady: they think it's kind of funny, because it has a funny name. And it's like, Yeah, but it actually is kind of debilitating, like when I have a flare like sometimes I can barely walk, you know, and if it's hot and humid that makes it worse. So Summers, especially where I live in New York City, where we walk a lot of places and take public transit, which isn't always, you know, super air conditioned. It can be excruciatingly painful, but people can't see it.
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Pearl Brady: And so they just think, oh, like, well, like, what's the problem? And it's like, I feel like my skin is on fire
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Pearl Brady: like, that's a problem that affects the ability for me to do pretty much everything from walking, my son to school, to getting to work, to even just making lunch, you know things like that. And people just don't understand. And you know, I understand that people don't want to ask questions that people could be offended by. And you know people are really scared to say the wrong thing.
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Pearl Brady: But I really think that if you're coming from a place of like true concern and true like, how can I make this better for you. I feel like that will really come across. And as a disabled person, when I've encountered people who've truly been like, what do you need? Tell me what you need, and let's see what we can do. That just means the world, because it shows me to Leah's point earlier that that person sees me as a.
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Pearl Brady: and they know that a level playing field looks different for every single person, so giving everyone the same thing like equality isn't always exactly the right thing. Sometimes you need equity in order to give people what they need specifically to succeed. And you know I've been in situations where I haven't gotten that. And I've been in situations where I have gotten that. And it has just. It's been night and day.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Danny Gluch: I think that's such a good point. And I hope, after all, of these podcast. Series and all the stuff, we're doing with this initiative is that people can really understand the difference between equality and equity in terms of disability, and Leah alluded to it earlier with the laptop analogy as well where it's it's not really about making sure everyone's treated the same. It's about treating people well.
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Danny Gluch: and I wanted to to sort of piggyback on something you were saying, Pearl, about the way people approach and the kinds of questions people ask. And
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Danny Gluch: you know it is lack of experience. It's a lack of having the language where people are scared that well, if I say this, am I going to offend someone? What are some of those phrases that might actually be offensive or way of questioning that feels offensive. And why does it feel that way? Versus what? What's a different sort of alternative that like, Wow, they're trying to do the same thing, but just like a little language, a little tone difference actually helps you feel heard and seen, and and that they're curious.
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Pearl Brady: Yeah. So what I've heard several times is, well, why do you need that?
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Pearl Brady: And it's like.
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Pearl Brady: I don't know if I really want to explain to you the intricacies of my rare genetic skin disease, so like, could I just tell you what I need. And you trust me versus like, you know, like what? What would help you
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Pearl Brady: like? What would help you be successful in this? What can we modify about your work situation to make this work, or even when I'm going out somewhere. You know I am also a large person, and so if I go to a restaurant where there are chairs with arms on them very often. I am extremely uncomfortable if I can even sit down, you know, and I've been in places like actually, a few months ago I went out to dinner with a bunch of friends of mine.
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Pearl Brady: and they only had arms with chairs, and they were very narrow even, for, like
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Pearl Brady: you know, not large people, I would have been a little concerned, and I asked them for a chair without arms, and like they made it a whole thing like multiple staff members came over. The manager came over. It was like a whole big thing, and I'm just standing there waiting for a chair. And when all they needed to do was be like, you know, okay.
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Pearl Brady: you know, we'll we'll find we'll find you something. We'll find you something that'll work, you know, instead of making it a giant production where people were looking over at me. It was. It was horrible! I ended up crying in the bathroom, because here. I just want to go to dinner with friends, you know, and just, you know, being very clear that, like, I want to help you, how can I help you versus? Oh, why do you need that? Or like making a making a big production about it, you know, making it very visible? That's not necessary.
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Lia Seth: I just want to respond to 2 things that Pearl said. First, st that second example. 1st of all horrifying.
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Lia Seth: It really does, though, drive home the point that this is not just a workplace consideration. This is something that people with disabilities disabled people, people in quote unquote, non conforming bodies. However, you want to put it like
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Lia Seth: that. You know, the average world is not built for. Let's be real like the world is not built for a lot of us
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Lia Seth: have to deal with these kinds of things and these kind of conversations
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Lia Seth: all the time every day. It's not just at work. So sometimes that conversation at work is like the absolute last straw, but something else that you said, Pearl, that I thought was really interesting. I just. There's 1 word that I really honed in, on which you said Trust, and that, I think, is so. Key here. It's
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Lia Seth: you're not like interrogating anyone. You're not questioning. You're not asking questions that you don't need to know. The answer to. I think that's really the key thing is a lot of times. Companies will think well, if they're, you know, disclosing this to me, I have a right to know everything there is to know about this, when all you really need to know is, what is it that that person needs?
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Lia Seth: They need to work from home. They need a different chair they need.
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Lia Seth: you know, an extra 2 days on book, whatever that might be.
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Lia Seth: You don't necessarily need to know why you don't need to know all the details of like. Well, how did they get this? Tbi. Well, why, how does it affect them? What medication are they taking? None of that is your business. So I think when you ask Danny what questions are okay and what aren't? It's really what answers do you need to know.
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Danny Gluch: I like that. I like that a lot. I personally like saying that I got hit by a truck. It makes people be surprised. I have a much more fun story about my Tbi than most people.
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Danny Gluch: Ashley. Did you have anything to add as far as questions and and tones ways? You know that that interrogation feel like just when you said it made me like it gave me the ick.
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Ashley Kera: Yeah.
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Ashley Kera: it's also okay to not have a response. And to just listen and revert back when someone initially comes to you. Sometimes people are like, Oh, I'm you know. But why? And they want to know everything, or they say, you know.
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Ashley Kera: okay, like, I'm not sure how to handle this or navigate it, you can just listen and say thank you for letting me know. Also respect their privacy and be discreet. It's not like you go and share. Sometimes that happens in organizations that they go and disclose it to everyone. It's completely inappropriate. Then you can go to Hr. Usually there's someone who's an employment lawyer, and they handle everything, and they
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Ashley Kera: they will let you know, and that person will contact the individual that needs accommodations, any necessary paperwork and whatnot. But organizations don't have that like the there should be. You know how in interview guides. They're like. These are the questions you ask. These are the questions, you know, do's and don'ts and best practices.
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Danny Gluch: That should be available in writing that should be part of the training.
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Danny Gluch: Well, if there's anything I've learned about those trainings is that you'll give them that guide, and they'll still ask the bad questions in the interviews.
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Danny Gluch: and then.
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Lia Seth: I mean, the guide exists at all. I mean, I've spent the majority of my career in startups, and I'm often like a founding people team member, or I'm building it out from, you know. Maybe there was a people team, but it was pretty scrappy or like, Oh, well, we've had a peo who kind of like gave us a handbook. And we're just sort of going with this.
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Lia Seth: And
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Lia Seth: so there's maybe guidance. But no one really had any training. So I think to your point, Ashley, like in an ideal world. Yes, there's an employment lawyer. There's someone there who has training in larger corporations. That's often the case in a lot of smaller companies that I've worked with.
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Lia Seth: There's
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Lia Seth: someone who maybe has good intentions. If you're lucky, but a lot of the time. There's not someone with specialized training or with a deep understanding of the law. And if there is, maybe that person is fractional, or maybe they're, you know, not in house. There might not be a dedicated person who's right there every day with your employees side by side.
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Lia Seth: to guide them through the process. Or it might be like, Okay, great. Well, call our accommodations Hotline, and they'll walk you through what you need to do. And it's this like soulless, faceless voice of a 3rd party company who doesn't know anything about you or your organization, or the work that you do.
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Lia Seth: or the needs of your job, or like, what's a key job responsibility and what isn't. There's there's so many different setups, and so many of them are just not good enough.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And I mean, what are the odds of the person who is dedicated and does know your job and does know you
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Danny Gluch: that they have experience with your disability and accommodating that like, that's
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Danny Gluch: yeah, Pearl, you were. Gonna say something.
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Pearl Brady: Yeah. So I I've I've had many experiences with requesting accommodations at work, and like by far the worst has been when there's like a very formal process through a 3rd party vendor where basically, they make it so much harder than it needs to be. And the best situations have been when I've just talked to my manager and been like, Hey, here's a situation like I like. Summer's coming up.
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Pearl Brady: I just want to let you know I have a I have more flares of this in the summer, like there may be days where I just cannot make the Schlep into the office like. It's just too far, you know. My subway station is 4 flights up. No elevator, you know. New York City transit, you know. And like, is it? Okay. If in those situations I just work from home. And she was like, of course.
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Pearl Brady: that's not a problem. I didn't have an official accommodation. I just worked it out with my manager, and I think that that is a fundamental flaw with a lot of management, as we see it now, is that people who are really good individual contributors get promoted to be managers and get no training on management
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Pearl Brady: at all.
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Pearl Brady: Like none like totally separate from disability. They just don't get training on how to manage people. And I've taken management classes through an online degree that I did during the pandemic when I was laid off and had nothing really better to do. And it it blew my mind where I was like. These are skills that can be taught. Why are they not taught, and you know a lot of it is
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Pearl Brady: giving your employees what they need to succeed, and it doesn't have to be like a formal accommodation. It doesn't have to be a big thing. It can just be like, Oh, yeah, you need that on those days. Sure. Okay, do that.
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Lia Seth: And I think that goes back to trust right, is just being able to have that conversation with your manager and say, Hey, here's what I need, and your manager's like great. There doesn't need to be a whole formal process like sounds good to me.
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Lia Seth: I was gonna say, when I was taking transit into work. I didn't even think I had a conversation. I just
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Lia Seth: scheduled all my meetings for the morning, and I would take the bus home at like 3 o'clock and work the rest of my day. At home, because I was like, I don't have any more meetings. I still have my laptop. I'll be productive at home. And this way I'm not trying to get on a bus at 5 30, when there's a million other people also trying to get on a bus at 5 30. And so, yeah, your exact point of like, hey, can this be an accommodation? It doesn't even need to be a conversation sometimes. Sometimes it can just be.
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Lia Seth: you know, an employee saying, Hey, I'm just gonna adjust my schedule so that my meetings are in the morning.
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Lia Seth: so I can work from home in the afternoon. Like, Is that cool? Yeah, great. You don't even need to do anything as a company, and it costs you $0. It costs $0. That's the other thing I don't think we've talked about is that people assume accommodations are expensive. They're often they're often free.
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Danny Gluch: Something I wanted to bring up, though, is the cost, and I think part of the formal processes and things is when
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Danny Gluch: organizations have to
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Danny Gluch: do a budget line right? Here's an item it cost X, and oftentimes it does cost a lot less than people assume and whatnot, and and oftentimes it's like a 1 time cost.
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Danny Gluch: And I think that brings in the formality of we need to justify what we're spending.
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Danny Gluch: And I wanted to talk a little bit about that process, and that need to justify these costs, contrasted with the actual costs of what it is to not have these accommodations like, what does it cost the individual, and then the team. And at the end of the day the organization, when they're not
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Danny Gluch: doing accommodations to help people work their best.
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Pearl Brady: I will say that if someone is in pain they're not giving their all. They're not being productive. You know. I started a job once where you know, they had just done a big remodel of the office. Everyone had matching chairs. They were the very, very fancy, you know, body plugging kind of chairs, and I can't. I couldn't sit down in it.
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Pearl Brady: I could not. I did not fit in the chair, and so I asked for another chair, and I was told there are no other chairs.
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Pearl Brady: You'll have to make it work. And so what I ended up doing was sitting on a movable file cabinet with a little pad on top for 3 weeks, until my boss saw me doing doing that, and she was like, Why don't you have a chair, and I was like, well, I was told that this is like, this is my only option, and she was like, Oh, no, no, no, we're not doing that.
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Pearl Brady: and they got a new chair for me, but it was like, what was the like? What was the cost barrier there like you have.
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Pearl Brady: You have other chairs like you can get. You can get a chair like you don't have to get a fancy chair. It doesn't have to be a $2,000 chair. It can just be a regular office chair that fits my needs, you know. But
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Pearl Brady: what's the cost of the person who is sitting on that movable file cabinet, you know, really uncomfortable, but like scared to say something because they just started this new job. And you know it was in a different industry than I had been in, so I wasn't sure what was acceptable. And also just for me, like I wasn't to the point in my life where I just stopped caring what people thought, and you know, forcefully advocated for what I needed. So
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Pearl Brady: you know, I just like. And there were times where I was sitting there, and I was just so humiliated sitting on this little movable file cabinet with a pad on top, thinking like, why can't I just have a chair that works for me. And so when you think of the cost, it's not just the cost of providing me with an appropriate chair. It's the lost productivity of that employee who can't do their best work, or even really any work, because they physically cannot sit down.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. But you also brought up the social, the emotional, like, there's a lot of costs associated with that that.
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Danny Gluch: you know. I think organizations just don't take into account. And this goes with with, you know, disabilities and and leaves and and lots of things as well.
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Lia Seth: Yeah, I think about like the the cost of if, as soon as that manager, I'm sure came to you and was like, No, this is ridiculous, like we're getting you a chair. Your like trust and loyalty to that manager probably went way up as an individual. So I just think about like when a company gets it right.
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Lia Seth: Employees
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Lia Seth: see that and respond to that, and are, you know, loyal to that, appreciate that. They're more engaged like it's it's not always dollars. Sometimes it's just like, Hey, trust is increased. Transparency is better. All of these things are better. And these are all things that companies care about because we all do engagement surveys. We're clearly all looking for employees to feel like, do you feel like you belong at work? It's like, well.
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Lia Seth: no, because I don't have a chair.
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Danny Gluch: We all know our turnover rate.
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Danny Gluch: It's Ashley you've worked with a lot of organizations like, Get getting started.
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Danny Gluch: How much does loyalty cost? What? What? What.
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Ashley Kera: Oh, well,
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Ashley Kera: You know what popped into my head. The company chewy. I think they do a lot of things right just for their customers, but also for their employees. It just if you ever email like a chewy, they're like customer service is like fantastic. And the people are just like so cheery, and I don't think you can fake that. But there's just something about whence it's not even going the extra mile like the example of the chair, like.
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Ashley Kera: I'm frankly appalled by that, like, how much is a chair like that's unreal? Yeah. But like
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Ashley Kera: to just to give a little bit.
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Ashley Kera: We'll like the employees will reciprocate like they will.
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Ashley Kera: The the perception changes, too.
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Ashley Kera: I guess I'm not edit this out because I'm not articulating. Well, but
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Danny Gluch: Sorry I put you on the spot.
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Ashley Kera: No, it's okay. I think it means a lot. People, really. It's not easy, I think, for people to ask for an accommodation. I think they especially now we consider today's job market. They're probably thinking, oh, no, if I ask for like, I can ask, like, I have no choice. Imagine the conversations that they're having at home before they even ask. But if it, the accommodation is made.
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Ashley Kera: the sense of relief, they can focus on work, not the things around it.
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Ashley Kera: So for also employers need to think about like, it's your reputation. Do you really want to be that company who didn't provide a chair.
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Danny Gluch: Think of the Glass Door review that's going to be put on that one.
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Ashley Kera: And it's everywhere. Now, Linkedin, it's everywhere. It's word of mouth.
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Pearl Brady: I mean honestly, after after she got me that chair, I I would have done anything for her.
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Lia Seth: Right.
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Pearl Brady: I, truly, truly I was just like, and it was, and she was like, Oh, my God! Like, why didn't you say something? I would have fixed this earlier, and I was like, I didn't know I really could. And she was like, of course you can. And like literally, I would have done anything for her absolutely.
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Danny Gluch: We need to put that on shirts.
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Lia Seth: It's just knowing someone's on your side, and again like to Ashley, to your point. I I hate to say it, but being in Hr. Today, I mean, I I almost assume that conversations I'm having are being recorded. I work fully, remotely. All my meetings are on zoom, and you know, slack huddles.
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Lia Seth: I just kind of have to assume that if I'm telling someone something that could potentially be published, I don't know.
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Lia Seth: You know, for better or worse. And
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Lia Seth: yeah, do you want to be the company who's telling someone? You can't have a chair, or
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Lia Seth: I don't believe you. You don't deserve this accommodation, or
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Lia Seth: this isn't in like your safety isn't in our budget functionally. That. And that gets out. You know it. It. You think about reputation. It's so important today. Companies really, really do a lot for it. And I think the transparency is increasing like nothing else.
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Lia Seth: you know, there's a lot of knowledge out there about what companies do to really have a good reputation. And the things that make a difference are the things that are real. When you're actually valuing your employees, showing them in real ways that I believe you. I support you. I'm here for you, not just putting words on a website. It's the action.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, it really is the actions. I wanted to start wrapping up a little bit, but I wanted to really highlight what Leah
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Danny Gluch: said there about feeling like they're on your side, because that's the opposite of how I framed this at the beginning, where there's like an Us. Versus them mentality. And you're trying to be like. No, I really, I promise that this is, you know, a positive overall value proposition. If you accommodate me like that doesn't feel good to have to advocate for yourself that way. So as we're wrapping up, whether you want to give words of advice, or you know words of inspiration. Or if you want to
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Danny Gluch: give some perspective on how organizations or managers, team leaders, team members even, who who don't have a position of authority
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Danny Gluch: can help
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Danny Gluch: their coworkers feel like they're on their side as opposed to against them. Any words I'd like to hear from everybody. Ashley, you you unmuted.
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Ashley Kera: Yeah, I think. Just be a decent human being. I don't have a disability, but my! Everything changed for me. My father lost his ability to walk. I saw people differently. I listened. I didn't assume I was so grateful that I had so many people I managed that trusted me. I'm thinking of. I mean, there were a few, particularly with
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Ashley Kera: the younger people. I managed a lot of mental health. Matters came up a lot of requests for leaves. So they did have, you know, severe depression, anxiety, and other things going on, and they were afraid. What does this mean for me? It's going to affect my bonus. How people view me. They came to me, and they spoke to me, and I advocated for them. I also found out the information. We handled things with a lot of discretion and privacy. But I always think
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Ashley Kera: like you never know what could happen to like, whether it's a physical like God forbid. But like I could get hit by a truck, too, like, you know, like I don't know, you know, but just be a decent human being, and also, it just boggles my mind and a lot of organizations they're like, no, we need productivity costs. But like, how are you measuring that
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Ashley Kera: like? But you know, you're like freaking out before you actually have the data available like, start somewhere and also learn too. Don't repeat the cycle of like just reacting, be proactive. So
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Ashley Kera: create those policies do the manager training. But I think the biggest takeaway is just like inside and outside of the workplace.
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Ashley Kera: Be a decent human being you treat people, how you'd want to be treated.
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Danny Gluch: Absolutely.
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Lia Seth: Ashley, you took my exact words, which was like, be proactive instead of reactive. And again, in my startup experience, a lot of times I have to be reactive, because that's just like where things are. I like, I'm just having to build things as people need them, because I don't have time to do it all at once. But if you're in an organization where you do have time to think about things, don't wait until someone needs something.
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Lia Seth: you know. Think about. Okay. If someone came to me tomorrow and asked for an accommodation or asked, What can we do as a company to help make me more successful, based on this condition that I have or this experience I'm having.
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Lia Seth: Think about how you'd respond. Think about that today. Write the policies like Ashley said. Get it ahead of the time that you need it, because I know, Danny, you asked me to tell this story. I once had to write my own medical leave policy
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Lia Seth: because I needed medical leave, and
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Lia Seth: no one had ever taken one. At this company. I was going out for surgery.
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Lia Seth: and I drafted the policy, and I did not know if it was going to be approved by the executive team until the day before I went on leave. So I am getting ready to go on this surgery. I'm going to be out for 6 weeks, and I'm just sitting there saying, 1st of all, I don't know how much the surgery is going to cost, because the insurance companies cannot give me a fair number of what they're going to cover. And, second of all. I don't know if I'm going to get paid for this time until the day before I went out on leave.
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Lia Seth: That was so stressful
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Lia Seth: it would have been so much easier if there was a leave plan in place. And someone had said, Oh, you're on a medical leave, great! This is what you're covered for, and then I could have made my decisions with that information instead of just keeping my fingers crossed 5 days before my surgery, and just hoping that I wouldn't have to give up my life savings to pay for the surgery, and also go without salary for 6 weeks.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, that lack of planning, that lack of transparency really does a toll on people holy smokes.
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Pearl Brady: Yeah, yeah. And I, I think that like those macro things like a company should have a medical leave policy like those are super important, a hundred percent
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Pearl Brady: But I also think that we can't lose sight of the micro, and that for me is a lot of having proactive conversations. So, you know I am very open about the fact that I have a disability. I talk about it. I'm very open about it, and I've had so many people be like, oh, my God! Like I cannot believe you actually talk about it like I have. Ocd. I haven't talked to anyone about it, because I'm like, terrified.
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Pearl Brady: And I'm like, No, no, like you have protections like, it's okay. And also, you know, for managers to really be open with their employees and say, like, Hey, like, if anyone needs an accommodation like, talk to me about it like I've had other employees who have needed things. I want to work something out so that it works for you, works for me, works for the company, you know. We can make it work. Just talk to me about it.
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Pearl Brady: I feel like when you give people the opening of like. Oh, I can have this conversation with you. It makes it so much easier, and makes it so much more likely that they will reach out and say, actually, I do need something. Can we have a conversation about that and be like, Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's disability is not a dirty word. It's not something that people should be scared of. It's not something that should have judgment. It just
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Pearl Brady: is, you know, and it's the only minority group that anyone at any time could be a member of. You know as as Danny. Your situation, you like. You were not a disabled person, and then you were a disabled person. I know many people who also have had similar things, or you know, we're just one diagnosis away from being disabled. And I think that just generally in society we need to talk about it more
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Pearl Brady: so that it's not this, like amorphous blob of scary and be like, Oh, yeah, okay, it's that, you know. It's like, you know how pregnancy used to be taught, treated in the workplace where it's like you can't tell anyone you're pregnant. You might get fired, and it's like, well, now, like you, you can be more open about it, you know, and hopefully in most most situations, although there are certain
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Pearl Brady: areas where I won't get into. But anyway, but just having those conversations feeling free to discuss these topics and just have it be an open and honest thing, because that's just what it is. It's part of people's lives. And that's okay.
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Danny Gluch: I love that. I think that's a great message, and I really hope that everyone who heard all of these great stories and insights learned a lot. You can find all of our other episodes as a part of this initiative on the podcast stream. You can also join us with the links in the show notes. Thank you all very much. Have a good day.
