The Elephant in the Org
The "Elephant in the Org" podcast is a daring dive into the unspoken challenges and opportunities in organizational development, particularly in the realm of employee experience. Hosted by the team at The Fearless PX, we tackle the "elephants" in the room—those taboo or ignored topics—that are critical for creating psychologically safe and highly effective workplaces.
The Elephant in the Org
ReThink Ability Episode 5 - Flare-Ups, Letdowns & Power Moves: Surviving Work on Unpredictable Terms
What do you do when your body doesn’t follow the calendar, and neither does your capacity?
In this episode of Rethink Ability, co-hosts Danny Gluch and Cacha Dora are joined by Greer Procich, Lia Seth, and Megan Rees for a candid, humorous, and deeply validating conversation about the unpredictable nature of working while living with a disability.
We talk about surprise flare-ups, medical trial-and-error, navigating grief and identity, and the hard-earned skills that disabled professionals bring to the workplace — from empathy and adaptability to ruthless prioritization and setting real boundaries.
💬 Topics include:
- Invisible conditions and being disbelieved
- The emotional toll of uncertainty and delayed diagnosis
- Medication roulette and scary side effects
- Why disclosure is still a risk in hiring
- What great managers actually do
- Finding community and honoring your limits
Whether you're living it, leading others, or just starting to learn, this one will stick with you.
Rethink Ability is a limited seven-part podcast series that explores the often unseen dimensions of disability in the workplace — and what it takes to build environments where everyone can thrive.
Brought to you by The Fearless PX and the team behind The Elephant in the Org, in collaboration with ReThink Ability, Invisible Condition, and The Performance Innovation Collective, the series centers the lived experiences of disabled employees, HR leaders, and workplace change-makers. Across seven honest, human, and action-driven episodes, we unpack the gap between intention and impact and explore how to bridge it.
This is a call to rethink assumptions, redesign systems, and reshape culture.
If you’re tired of one-size-fits-all policies and hungry for real change, you’re in the right place.
🐘 Connect with Us:
🚀 Follow The Fearless PX on LinkedIn: The Fearless PX
📩 Got a hot take or a workplace horror story? Email Marion, Cacha, and Danny at elephant@thefearlesspx.com
🎧 Catch every episode of The Elephant in the Org: All Episodes Here
🚀Your Hosts on Linkedin:
💬 Like what you hear?
Subscribe, leave a ★★★★★ review, and help us bring more elephants into the light.
🎙️ About the Show
The Elephant in the Org drops new episodes every two weeks starting April 2024.
Get ready for even more fearless conversations about leadership, psychological safety, and the future of work.
🎵 Music & Production Credits
🎶 Opening and closing theme music by The Toros
🎙️ Produced by The Fearless PX
✂️ Edited by Marion Anderson
⚠️ Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and do not necessarily reflect any affiliated organizations' official policy or position.
Episode 5 Transcript - UNPREDICATBILITY
“Flare-Ups, Letdowns & Power Moves: Surviving Work on Unpredictable Terms”
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Danny Gluch: Well, let's get started. Welcome back, everyone. I'm Danny Glutch, and I'm joined by my lovely panelists. Megan Reese.
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Megan Rees: Hi! I'm Megan.
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Danny Gluch: Greer Procich
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Greer Procich: Hi! Everybody!
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Danny Gluch: Cacha Dora.
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Cacha Dora: Hello!
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Danny Gluch: And Lia Seth
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Lia Seth: Hello!
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Danny Gluch: And ladies, I've got a fun game for you. Have you ever played mad libs.
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Cacha Dora: Yes.
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Greer Procich: Oh, yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Because today's topic is about not being in control, the unpredictability of disability. Nothing is less in control
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Danny Gluch: than mad libs. So I'm going to go around in the circle just in the order that I introduced you all. And I'm gonna just say the the you know, you need an adjective, a noun, whatever it is, and you're gonna give it to me. And at the end I will read a story so.
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Cacha Dora: We get a topic, Daddy, or we just like normally, our ad lib gives us a topic.
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Danny Gluch: No, I mean, I think you might be able to use some context clues.
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Danny Gluch: It's not about baseball.
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Cacha Dora: Noted.
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Danny Gluch: Megan. Adjective. Please.
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Megan Rees: Terry.
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Danny Gluch: Time of day, Greer.
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Greer Procich: 2 Am.
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Danny Gluch: Verb ending in ING Kasha.
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Cacha Dora: Hurting.
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Danny Gluch: Hurting.
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Cacha Dora: Like herding cats.
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Danny Gluch: Do you.
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Cacha Dora: Yes.
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Danny Gluch: Okay.
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Danny Gluch: All right.
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Danny Gluch: Type of profession. Leah.
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Lia Seth: Farmer.
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Danny Gluch: Object. Megan.
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Megan Rees: I can't think of the word here. Here's my different abilities in action. A crystal ball that's.
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Danny Gluch: There's still ball.
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Danny Gluch: Sound Greer.
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Greer Procich: Bud.
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Danny Gluch: Emotion, kasha.
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Cacha Dora: Elation.
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Danny Gluch: Body, part Leah.
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Lia Seth: Elbow.
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Danny Gluch: Mode of transportation. Megan.
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Megan Rees: Go kart.
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Danny Gluch: That's a good one.
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Danny Gluch: Unexpected event, Greer.
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Greer Procich: Winning the 50 50 raffle at a sporting event.
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Danny Gluch: Wow.
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Danny Gluch: I have to write so much.
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Danny Gluch: Verb. Cautia.
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Cacha Dora: And verb singing?
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Cacha Dora: Is it always an in Jeever.
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Danny Gluch: No, no, you're fine. I can adjust it.
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Cacha Dora: Okay.
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Danny Gluch: Another verb, Leah.
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Lia Seth: Sleep.
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Danny Gluch: A famous or historical person. Megan.
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Megan Rees: Amelia Earhart.
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Danny Gluch: Adjective career.
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Greer Procich: Stinky.
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Danny Gluch: Kasha, noun, or object. Sorry object.
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Cacha Dora: Me pick Jeez Danny an object, a pen.
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Cacha Dora: Your time is.
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Danny Gluch: Julia, something, someone's something someone assumes. You need help with.
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Lia Seth: Like me personally. No, you're not giving me any context here.
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Danny Gluch: And there is a hairy, stinky pen involved.
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Lia Seth: Let's say, feeding yourself.
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Danny Gluch: And last Megan, an empowering feeling.
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Megan Rees: Confidence.
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Danny Gluch: All right.
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Danny Gluch: Are you all ready for this?
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. Now I have to read and talk at the same time, which is not fun because of dyslexia, but I'm gonna do it anyways.
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Cacha Dora: I believe in you, Danny.
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Greer Procich: Got it.
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Danny Gluch: This morning started off perfectly hairy
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Danny Gluch: at 2 Am. I was hurting
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Danny Gluch: just like any other day when my farmer
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Danny Gluch: that works so well called and told me that I had to bring my crystal ball right away, because, Bud.
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Danny Gluch: that one didn't work. So I felt elation and my elbow hurt.
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Danny Gluch: But I got in my go-kart anyway.
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Danny Gluch: Halfway there I won the 50 50 raffle at a sporting event classic.
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Danny Gluch: When I finally arrived I was late
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Danny Gluch: again. They said, well, you should have just sang.
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Danny Gluch: I wanted to leap in response.
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Danny Gluch: but I knew that isn't something Amelia Earhart would approve of.
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Danny Gluch: so I picked up my stinky pen and carried on.
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Danny Gluch: Everyone keeps assuming they know how to help me with feeding myself. But really I just need people to understand that some days. I just want confidence.
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Greer Procich: I love very good.
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Cacha Dora: God.
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Greer Procich: That was so. Fun.
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Danny Gluch: That is great radio, too.
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Cacha Dora: Oh, my days!
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Megan Rees: I didn't know Amelia Earhart was so like judgmental. I gotta have a chat with her.
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Danny Gluch: Well, you can use your crystal ball.
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Megan Rees: I, yeah, exactly.
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Cacha Dora: Also the idea of just winning a 50 50 raffle while casually riding your go-kart to the farm.
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Danny Gluch: 2 Am.
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Greer Procich: Yeah, I'm over.
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Greer Procich: I'm legitimately concerned on why, someone would have a stinky pen like, I'm I'm worried.
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Megan Rees: Yuck! Don't yuck anyone's yum.
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Cacha Dora: No, it's not the yucky, it's more of the logistics. I'm just confused.
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Greer Procich: But stinky, I guess Stinky is subjective, too, so.
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Cacha Dora: Fair, very fair.
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Lia Seth: Go bad.
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Megan Rees: Sometimes friends just don't want to shower.
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Danny Gluch: I've never showered my pen. Are you supposed to.
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Cacha Dora: So? Why.
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Greer Procich: What are? What has this devolved into? Where are we.
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Cacha Dora: That is mad. Lib. We're mad libbing the mad. Lib.
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Greer Procich: Exactly.
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Danny Gluch: So I wanted everyone to to loosen up and have fun. I like making people laugh, and that was a great one.
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Greer Procich: Did it, Danny, with flying colors. Thank you.
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Danny Gluch: But also that really is, it's so unpredictable. And you just have to like roll with the punches with life. And I feel like with any disability. That's a big part of it is learning how to roll with the unpredictable punches, and wanted to get us talking about that, and being in that frame of mind, and I wanted to ask you all what was something that's been like?
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Danny Gluch: Really, surprisingly, not in your control, as far as navigating your disability and either life or specifically work.
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Danny Gluch: What's something that surprised you? You're like, oh, wow! I never thought that wouldn't be under my control.
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Danny Gluch: Greer.
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Greer Procich: I think, for me. The way that people perceive
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Greer Procich: my disability is definitely out of my control. I look, I show up very able-bodied. I
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Greer Procich: have a non apparent disability. I have something called ankylosing spondylitis, and so I have
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Greer Procich: arthritis from my head to my toes. But if you see me. I look fine, but I think for me it's
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Greer Procich: people don't understand that. That's how I'm showing up. And so the perception is, you know, not meeting my reality. Part of it's my fault because I'm asking a lot of times. But a lot of it is that people just don't understand that someone who appears how I appear could feel the way that I feel all the time. So that's that's definitely a hard part.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, thanks for calling that out. Anyone else have something that was like. Surprisingly, not in your control, Megan.
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Megan Rees: Yeah, I think I've sort of made it through life just kind of on my intelligence. And you know, I hope that doesn't sound. Well, I don't care what it sounds like. It's it's real and there came a point sometime in the height of, like the the early stage of the pandemic where focus and memory started becoming really hard.
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Megan Rees: And so just sort of winging it on. My intelligence alone wasn't working, and it was. It was confusing and frustrating, and I didn't quite know what to do with all of that, because it's like what I've always just been able to manage. And it became really hard. And
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Megan Rees: yeah, was that the question.
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Danny Gluch: What a great example.
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Danny Gluch: But yeah, no, I think it was. It's you know, I also someone who who has a brain trauma. It can be really like. Oh, wow! I wasn't expecting to not remember what you said a minute ago or yesterday, or I don't remember coming to work yesterday. That was fun.
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Danny Gluch: It's yeah. You never know when you're going to get gaps. Kasha, what about you?
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Cacha Dora: I think, at least for me, with having migraines. This, the lack of control and just the sheer unpredictability of them, right like it's not just about like, Oh, does it happen during a certain
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Cacha Dora: hormone cycle? Are you stressed? Have you worked out today? Have you not worked out today? Are you staring at a computer too long, are you? Is your neck in a weird position like you just don't know when you start to get certain signs. And while the medical field has made medications to help, prevent, or like hit, try and circumvent them right at the exact right time. But there's so many like
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Cacha Dora: timing things
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Cacha Dora: and sometimes like you could. I've had the best weekends ever, and the weekend ends, or like the days cut in the middle because something hits like
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Cacha Dora: you can't predict when they're going to hit. You can't predict the severity. And a lot of these invisible disabilities or disabilities like, you know Greer was talking about right people can't see them, and if you can't see it, then that means that when you do try to advocate for yourself, you're already met with doubt.
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Cacha Dora: And I think that
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Cacha Dora: that's also kind of hard, because you assume that people would assume the best. And if you look okay?
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Cacha Dora: Or in my case, when I have a migraine and I start closing when I'm looking like a pirate.
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Cacha Dora: it it's jarring to try and advocate for yourself, when you just kind of want to blend a bit better.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, Leah, anything you'd like to add.
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Lia Seth: As a self acknowledged control freak. I think it's it's really hard when there's so much that is not in my control. As I learned about my
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Lia Seth: seizures, my non epileptic seizures, you know, I learned a lot of what the triggers were. It's, you know, stressful situations. It's sudden loud noises or surprises. But then it's things like not being hydrated enough or not getting enough sleep. And
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Lia Seth: there's only so much of that that's in my control, you know I can control. Okay, I'm going to stay at home, where I know there's no loud, sudden noises, or I'm just going to stay on the couch where nothing's going to surprise me. But if I have one bad night of sleep, it doesn't matter how much other, how many other things I do or like how hydrated I am.
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Lia Seth: That's a seizure Trigger, and it might just throw off my whole day, because I might say I cannot get through this day without. I need to take a nap.
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Lia Seth: and I sometimes joke like I don't take naps. Naps take me because I will sometimes just be like I cannot function awake anymore. And I, if I don't lie down right now, I'm just going to pass out. I have to go to sleep immediately. That lack of control was definitely, really surprising, especially as someone who, you know, really tried to learn as much as I could about the symptoms. And the triggers say, like, okay. Well, if I do everything right, then I can master this.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Lia Seth: You can't.
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Greer Procich: Yeah, the volatility, I think, of the day to day, and not being able to predict it is so difficult, especially when you're expected to show up a hundred percent every day. Some days you like Leah's saying like, I
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Greer Procich: so feel you because I've been there where my body is just like. Nope, it's nap time. Goodbye. You can't do anything else. And so it makes it really hard to be predictable for your team members on how you're going to show up as well.
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Greer Procich: and so it doesn't just affect you. My disability affects people around me, too, which brings a lot of shame and guilt and all of that kind of stuff along in the process with us. So there's I think it's important to acknowledge that, like the control doesn't just the lack of control doesn't just impact me. It impacts everybody around me.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And I think that's the you know, a lot of you talked about how
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Danny Gluch: you either present to your teammates or the quality or ability to work affects your teammates, but also that your teammates are affecting you and their responses. Right? Career, you even said like you can't control their perception of you or their responses of you.
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Danny Gluch: How is it working on teams? What are some of the unpredictable parts about being in an organization or on teams that are hopefully, maybe there's a story that's surprisingly good in there somewhere. But I'm also assuming there's more of the unpredictable out of control
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Danny Gluch: difficulties with being parts of organizations or on teams.
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Cacha Dora: I will say that for some of the work that I do right. That involves training.
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Cacha Dora: You have it pre-planned out.
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Cacha Dora: So you know when you're gonna have and you know orientation or a different kind of training event. And sometimes that means that that is.
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Cacha Dora: excuse me. Sometimes that means that that is
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Cacha Dora: something that you're owning, and you already know that you're owning, or you're co owning, owning it with somebody else. And so that
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Cacha Dora: that communicate not to use the the 2 C's you hear in corporate all the time communication and collaboration. But that leaning into those with your peers has saved me so many times, because everyone knows that I have migraines, and
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Cacha Dora: I am also very guilty of pushing through when I shouldn't, because I have that strong sense of ownership to the people I work with and to the people who are coming into my trainings, and I want them to have the best experience, even if I'm the one limping home at the end of the day. I'm not advocating that you do this. I'm saying this is a public service announcement. Please don't do that, but I'm working on it. But that lack of control around your teammates like it's very visible.
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Cacha Dora: And sometimes you can plan around it, and sometimes you can't. I'm very lucky, and that the people I've worked with have always been very supportive and tried to do whatever they could. Do. You need more water. Do you want me to take over this portion? That aspect of things to try and accommodate me if I choose to not remove myself
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Cacha Dora: in those situations.
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Danny Gluch: Thank you. Hasha. Career.
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Greer Procich: Yeah, I I think I think we talk a lot about disability in terms of like day to day, right? Like, how can I show up today versus how can I show up tomorrow? But a lot of things
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Greer Procich: that we miss in disability or long term things so like being able to understand how taking a new medication is going to affect your ability to show up for like a few months at a time. Right? So I take medicine called biologics. I go into a hospital. I sit for an infusion for a few hours.
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Greer Procich: and it's something that took 3 full months to build up into my body. And so, as you can imagine, in that 3 month time, I couldn't show up very well. I was a piece of shit. I was sleeping all the time. My appetite wasn't there. My brain fog, when I showed up, was wild.
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Greer Procich: And so during that time period it's this adjustment of trying to get to normal or acceptable, or whatever it is that society is saying. And so I think we've got to think about it in different ways.
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Greer Procich: I can't show up today, and if I can't show up today.
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Greer Procich: but I do show up. That's going to impact my ability to show up the next day, and then it's all just going to pile onto itself until I go into a huge flare. And I just am completely off the map. And so, being able to have the autonomy to manage our symptoms in real time, I think, is something that we don't really have a lot of empowerment to do in the workplace, because
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Greer Procich: we have to prove our disability in a lot of ways, and a lot of people don't understand it. So there's just a lot of barriers.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, and that understanding. And that trust is.
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Greer Procich: Awesome.
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Danny Gluch: Something you can't predict.
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Greer Procich: Exactly.
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Danny Gluch: Percent.
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Greer Procich: Yeah, exactly.
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Megan Rees: Yeah, I wanted to pop in here because I think I might be holding it down for the temporary and surprise disability crowd. You know, I as I'm sort of navigating perimenopause. Things have just come up out of the blue that I couldn't have planned for. Didn't know we're going to come, and you know I was listening to Kasha's story about migraine, and I was like, damn like, I wish I wish I had known that was a thing that might happen. But one day I was like
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Megan Rees: physically unable to move. And you know, trying to get the message to my team that I wasn't gonna be there today was such an ordeal. I'm like, I know, I have one team members.
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Megan Rees: text or like number in my phone. So I'm like trying to get siri. Oh, God, please don't turn on trying to get siri to to like text that person, but it like the message like. She didn't really understand what I was saying, so what she told my I had said like, if you see our manager let let them know. But she didn't see the manager for like hours, so nobody knew like what was going on with me, and I couldn't communicate with anybody.
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Megan Rees: so you know, I I'm really glad that at that stage in my career I was only doing instructional design. I wasn't doing any delivery, because imagine, if that had been like I was supposed to facilitate that day, like the whole thing, would have just been a complete disaster. So I just want to like a little bit of a shout out for those of us who have things that crop up that we could not anticipate or plan for, or even communicate ahead of time. This is the thing that might happen, because sometimes it's like a surprise.
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Danny Gluch: No, it's certainly.
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Greer Procich: I want to double tap down into that, though, because Dr. Angela Young says it really well is that we fluidly move through
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Greer Procich: disability at different points in our life. And so I say this as much as I possibly can. Is that just because you're not disabled now doesn't mean that you will not become disabled in the future, or somebody that you love will become disabled in the future, and not permanently, maybe, but temporarily, could also happen too. And so we should be empathetic and open minded, because this can come to our doorstep at any point in time
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Greer Procich: without notice.
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Greer Procich: Yeah, like Megan, always get hit by a truck on the way home from work.
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Greer Procich: Exactly a thousand percent. Or you could have long covid, or you know, something
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Greer Procich: something can happen that is completely out of your control, that then you're fighting with insurance about. Let's talk about another thing out of our control. That is just such a detrimental element of our life here is insurance is like that just then, adds a whole nother layer of stress. And so I can say for myself, stress flares up my symptoms. And so then, when we're dealing with these stressful environments on top of
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Greer Procich: a medical condition, it all becomes even more unpredictable.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. Well, I wanted to to maybe follow that up with
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Danny Gluch: what about the unpredictability of the insurance, and whether they're covering things, but also the effectiveness of the things you're trying, Greer you mentioned, hey? I tried this thing, and it was going to take 3 months to like be in full effect, but it's still like, what were the odds of it? Just not being effective like.
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Greer Procich: Oh, yeah.
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Danny Gluch: Something.
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Greer Procich: Oh, I think at this point I think I've tried 8 different medications for my disability, and most of them are the type of medicine called the biologic. That takes a long time to get into your system.
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Greer Procich: You don't know for 3 months. If it's gonna work or not, then you gotta gotta give it that time after it gets built up into your system to see if it's going to work. And then the best part of it is that your body could eventually become immune to it. And so, even if I find something that's like, yes, this is it. This is exactly what I needed my body at any point in time could eventually just be like
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Greer Procich: Screw it. We're done. And so that kind of uncertainty is so stressful as well to think of like, okay, I'm managing right now. But there could become a time where I have to go through this like discovery process of what works for me all over again.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. Megan.
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Megan Rees: Just wanna like in my professional capacity and my personal capacity. Like I, I just wanna quadrupley double down on that because I work with a lot of people who have mood and anxiety challenges.
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Megan Rees: and the finding the right medic medicine sort of cocktail. I say sometimes, because sometimes it's more than one
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Megan Rees: is. It can be a whole process. And some of those medicines cause really terrible side effects. So and you kind of don't know until you try it out, and there could be a period, you know, some some antidepressants like actually cause a spike in anxiety. So all of a sudden anxiety wasn't your issue. But now you have anxiety while you're trying to manage the depression and and so you know, that can be a whole thing, and there's so much stigma
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Megan Rees: around mental illness, and also like, how much would you want to disclose with your manager that that's something you're working through, or to your team, like some of that stuff, is really none of their business. I want to talk about insurance. Oh, that might be a whole other. Podcast I just went live to talk about that when it comes to mental health treatment. But like I try to not work with insurance because I don't want to have to give up all this data about a client, especially when it comes to their mental health.
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Megan Rees: and how much that tracks throughout their entire system of care. So yeah, I'm not a fan of insurance companies at all. And if you want to talk more about that, I have a whole video about it, or I'd happy to rant all day. But I'm gonna shut it down for.
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Greer Procich: I think we also have to acknowledge, too, though that, like some of the treatments that we take are really scary, like the medicine that I take is called a black box drug. It's like you are probably going to develop cancer from this or something like that. And so like not only having to find the medicine that works for you. But make the decision that you're going to open yourself up to something else that could possibly become wrong with your health. It's like
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Greer Procich: I have no control over my body. I have no control over my wellness. I have no control over
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Greer Procich: what the future looks like for me, because this could make me feel better, but then cause a whole new crop of issues that I didn't even think about.
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Cacha Dora: Yeah, that's hard to manage, especially when you're seeking one result.
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Cacha Dora: cognitively aware that another result might be the byproduct, and that that balance is something that the end of the day, only you can tip that scale for yourself.
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Cacha Dora: But even like you know, and I mentioned earlier, right like migraine medications. I don't want to say there's a dime a dozen, but there's so many out there, and I think Megan, largely to your point, right, because some of them have certain side effects, or they co interact with a different medication to help with something else. A lot of anti seizure medication have been proven to help with migraines right? These like these medications that you don't realize actually have a different side effect in a positive note.
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Cacha Dora: Even if you're taking them for something opposite. And because we can't, we have no prediction of how these chemicals are going to interact with our own bodies, like, I took an migraine preventative once that I had all the symptom, all the side effects all at once.
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Cacha Dora: like all of them, and I literally like looked at a coworker, and I was like, I think I'm having a heart attack
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Cacha Dora: like because of how my chest was feeling like I had like every symptom like in a snap when you're supposed to take it, you know, in a certain time interval, and obviously never touch that thing again. But like those, we're also taking risks with medication, and I think that's something that.
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Cacha Dora: and it doesn't matter right? You could take a risk by taking penicillin if you've never taken it before, right for for being ill. So there's like any medication we take. There's a risk involved, and I think that sometimes, going back to having to experiment to find the right one.
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Cacha Dora: I don't think it's talked about enough like how much risk you put yourself through because of these side effects, because you don't know how you're going to respond, or if you one, you need one. But you also need a cocktail of it, and medication is not infallible, just like technology is not infallible. And so sometimes we'll be taking something for years and then find out. Oh, I shouldn't have been taking that
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Cacha Dora: for whatever reason, and we just don't know. So I think there's a lot of power to be held
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Cacha Dora: in vocalizing just what the process looks like, and but going back to that psych safety side of things. It's really hard to also address that with your managers as well, or just your colleagues and peers like your non personal circles.
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Danny Gluch: Leah.
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Lia Seth: Yeah, I feel like I have this kind of pendulum swing with my relationship with medication. I grew up in a very like pro medication household. It's like, Oh, I've got a little bit of cough. Great take Dayquil. That'll like, knock it right out. I've got a little bit of a headache. Okay, take a Tylenol like that was just the immediate go to. And it's interesting growing up and like meeting different people where that's not their experience, like my partner, for example, is, has to be like dying before you will take
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Lia Seth: any kind of anything, refuses to take any sort of like nighttime, like sleep aid which is fair, because, like a lot of them, will give you really weird dreams. You've had Nyquil, or anything like that.
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Lia Seth: And for me like knowing. Okay, well, I've got these. You know, this condition that's exacerbated by lack of sleep. So I really, it's important to me that I get enough sleep, and I get good quality sleep, and you know I don't want to
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Lia Seth: have sleep that's plagued with stressful dreams, because I found that then I wake up, and my whole body is sore because I've been tense all night. So that doesn't work either. Also try having a chronic pain condition and being allergic to Ibuprofen. That's a fun one.
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Greer Procich: Oh, my God! No! No!
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Lia Seth: Can't do it. But I, you know, was kind of like, okay, well, maybe there's like other things I can try to help my sleep that aren't so intense, you know, and I know so many people who take Melatonin and are like, oh, it's natural. It just helps you increase the natural, you know, natural hormones in your body, and I was reading about it. I'm like, maybe this is something I could try and like the 1st warning it gets is.
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Lia Seth: do not take this. If you have a seizure condition, like, okay.
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Danny Gluch: Really.
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Lia Seth: No melatonin. Never mind, I just gotta continue to do my best then without it.
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Greer Procich: I will say that navigating this medicine journey has been so much easier. With Chat Gpt, my chat. Gpt and I are very, very close. We talk about my blood test results. We talk about the medications I'm taking, and if I can take other things with them so highly recommend that to anybody who is unsure because it's brought me a lot of relief. I will say.
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Danny Gluch: Also we are not doctors, and neither is chatgpt.
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Greer Procich: Yes, a thousand percent. None of us are doctors. Nope, Nope, Nope.
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Danny Gluch: So here's a question, how did you all come to terms or find
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Danny Gluch: peace with this unpredictability? Was there like a grieving process? Did you read a lot of stoic philosophy like? How did you
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Danny Gluch: handle the fact that, wow! My life is so unpredictable day to day, and the long term as Greer was mentioning, as well.
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Lia Seth: I sleep like a lot. If I get too stressed out. I'm just like I'm just going to go to sleep because I can't deal with this. But for me, honestly, the unpredictability was just going to be a reality, no matter what. It's something that I kind of got used to, and it took about 10 years of symptoms before I was diagnosed with non-epileptic seizures. So for me, that was the relief.
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Danny Gluch: But.
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Lia Seth: Okay, yeah, this is unpredictable, but I have a name for it. And now I know what to look for. And so I think there's that level of okay. The symptoms may be unpredictable, but the more you can learn about it, especially if you have a condition that's considered rare or unusual, or one that doctors don't really know about, or whatever
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Lia Seth: it's so helpful to just have a name and a condition that you can do your own research on, even though I might sit here and say, Well, I just don't know when a symptom is going to start, but as I've learned more about it. I've been able to identify the triggers sooner, so I might not be able to say, Okay, I can't predict when a seizure can start. But I can sit there and say I'm feeling symptoms starting to come on. So I'm now not going to be surprised by a seizure. I can get myself into a safe position where, like.
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Lia Seth: I'm getting seizure auras, I need to stop whatever I'm doing. I need to lie down. I need to go home, whatever it is so I guess it's it's still that element of control, I guess, like a control. What you can.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, you like became an expert in yourself.
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Greer Procich: Alex
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Greer Procich: really want to hear what Megan has to say about this topic. So I'm just gonna call on her because I have to hear it.
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Megan Rees: Sure. It's interesting, because I was thinking about both, you know, for the people that I serve and for myself, like I'm I'm really glad that you brought grief into this conversation, because I think that's really important. And I think you know that diagnoses can be really empowering, and they can help you like. Put a name to the thing that's going on for you, and and sort of make it seem like there's some. There's some reasons for all of this suffering.
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Megan Rees: But there can also be grief, you know, like, like I was talking about earlier, I was functioning pretty normally for most of my life until I wasn't, and then it was confusing, and it was like the
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Megan Rees: such a big part of my identity was to be able to function well, and to be able to think fast, and and all of these things. And then, when those things were sort of not quite happening in the way that they that I would like that that was hard, and and I witnessed it with my clients with just experiencing grief. And sometimes it's just about naming that it's like, you know. And
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Megan Rees: you know, if I'm thinking about specifically this temp potentially temporary disability of perimenopause, there's so much grief wrapped in that. And there's so much like my body is really changing, and the things that used to be this way are not going to be that way ever again and so there's a lot of there's a lot of grief there and
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Megan Rees: But yeah, like, in terms of like, how did I? How did I deal with it like I don't know. I'm building my own business, and I'm trying to follow my energy, and I'm trying to design it so that, like I get to do the really deep introspective work at the times that my brain likes to do those things, and I'm trying to do the more peopley things, and the times when my brain is able to handle more peopley things.
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Megan Rees: and sometimes that becomes very exhausting where it never was before, like I used to be such an extroverted introvert. And now I'm like an introvert who has to come and be extroverted sometimes, and then sit on the couch for a couple of days to to sort of rejuvenate. After that.
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Danny Gluch: You know.
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Danny Gluch: So as we start to to wrap up a little bit, I was wondering
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Danny Gluch: because, you know, businesses now, a lot of the. You know, they're looking for competencies and skills. And one of the competencies. You see, a lot is dealing with ambiguity. How do you handle ambiguity?
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Danny Gluch: And
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Danny Gluch: one of the the themes that I'm hearing is that you all are really really well seasoned at that.
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Danny Gluch: What are some other ways that you've grown, or that you've been forced to grow, or
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Danny Gluch: some sort of like. How would you highlight in an interview? How handling your disability has has actually helped you
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Danny Gluch: in this way!
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Greer Procich: I'm going to start by saying it is not safe for a lot of people to disclose their disability, especially in an interview process. And so I personally do not recommend disclosing a disability. It does not impact your ability to do your job. It does not impact all of that stuff.
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Greer Procich: For me. It's a safety thing. Do not disclose that. I think the conversation comes into play after you've been hired on the accommodations that you'd need right. And so for me, as somebody who lives with a disability I educate
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Greer Procich: right away. I'll tell my manager, hey? I'm sending you a link to an article on ankylosing spondylitis. Check it out. Let me know if you have any questions. Here's another article about spoon theory, because I will talk to you about how I can show up in terms of spoons. Great. Let me know if you have any other questions. And so once you get into the organization, I think that's when you start to communicate your needs.
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Greer Procich: draw your boundaries on where you will, and will not commit, and how you can and can't show up and educate around others, but I had to jump in there. My Hr brain was just like, no, don't tell anybody. No, no, no.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, no, no, that's that's actually.
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Greer Procich: There's actually a screen that was.
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Danny Gluch: That in one of our other panels, like.
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Greer Procich: There was a study that was done, that the same resume got put in without a disability, and then with a disability, and it got immediately rejected from the Ats after it said it had a disability, and so it's not safe
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Greer Procich: to put that to say that in an interview, and I do not recommend it.
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Greer Procich: Unfortunately, unfortunately, there, you know, it's just the reality of the world that we're living in.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, I was wanting to to frame it a little more is like, what's a positive, a highlight that that you think you've. You know people. We were talking with Megan, and she said her her superpower from Covid, something that you know as you've grown, and you've handled all of this unpredictability. What is something you think you've actually developed a real strength at
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Danny Gluch: through through doing this.
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Cacha Dora: I think the thing that came to mind immediately for me was just a an ability to see options see different pathways for things. Not just like planning for the worst or anything like that, because I think anyone that knows me knows I'm pretty pretty positive person. I'm your Silver Linings girl through and through. But you know, being able to plan ahead and being able to.
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Cacha Dora: Also just feel comfortable with a pivot like, you know. Throw in the Ross, screaming, pivot all you want, but like
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Cacha Dora: expecting that unexpected and not having it be just a mental waiting for a shoe to drop kind of thing, and just knowing that nothing is set in stone, nothing is concrete. And I think that.
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Cacha Dora: knowing that, like seeing like you know migraines run in my family. So I've seen this like before. I even started having them myself. And so that pivot, that capability of pivoting something I've seen modeled.
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Cacha Dora: and that modeling has then also informed me at work, because things at work change all the time in any workplace, and you don't have a way of knowing that or being prepared for it. So I think, like having that level of flexibility and then being able to share 8 million stories about your flexible and how things change. You know, because it happens all the time. So that's kind of the thing that stood out to me was just that flexibility that ability to pivot and not in many ways, you know, not have to have it sit for too long.
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Danny Gluch: And do you think that also, having that amongst all the pivots and changing landscapes, having that positive attitude is something that you
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Danny Gluch: learned, or or you're better at that because of this.
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Cacha Dora: I think, in some ways.
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Cacha Dora: yes, but I have to be very careful with it, because it can appear tone deaf to a lot of people who are feeling feelings that are a lot deeper and darker. Or feelings of confusion, or anything like that. And I'm very careful for myself, like I never lean towards that positive was a positive toxicity or so I can't remember the phrase off the top of my head.
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Greer Procich: Positivity.
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Cacha Dora: There we go. I almost made it sound like a system of a down song. Sorry, friends. Not sorry. But you know I think I'm more like I'm I'm positive, landed in reality. So like again, like that, positivity moves into solutions, and I have to be careful because I'll talk myself, I'll be like, do you want me to listen? You want me to just a solution. I'm ready to be your solutions, girl, so I have to be careful, even when I'm helping others with disabilities or things like that, how to navigate themselves? Because I'll find a way. I'll find a pathway.
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Danny Gluch: Leah, what do you think.
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Lia Seth: I had 2 things come to mind so kind of similar to Kasha. I I say a lot, actually, that, like my disabilities, make me better at my job. Because in one way I think I have much greater empathy for people.
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Greer Procich: Yes, yes, yes.
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Lia Seth: Going through the same thing as me, but people going through different things, who might be dealing with an illness, a new condition, a new diagnosis, having to get surgery, figuring out, taking time away from work. How do I manage a leave of absence like I've been through all of these things.
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Lia Seth: And you don't have to have gone through something to empathize. But like, let's be real. It helps
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Lia Seth: so the fact that I work in a role where I manage things like leaves of absence and accommodations like I can really put myself in that person's shoes and understand a little bit of what they might be feeling and experiencing, especially if they're someone who has had a non-disabled experience. Up to that point they might say, like, this is scary. This is new, I might be able to kind of like walk them through a little bit. So I think the empathy is is one, and on the other side of it.
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Lia Seth: I think the disability, the experiences I've had has really allowed me to ruthlessly prioritize at work, because I've had to do that in my home life, too, if I think like, okay, I've got this weekend ahead. And I know I'm not going to have energy to do all these things. Okay, I've been invited to this concert. I want to go to this party. There's an open house in my neighborhood, and I want to go check that out because I'm nosy. But then I also told this friend that I would get brunch with her. Okay, what do I have the energy to do?
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Lia Seth: Do? I have the energy to go walk to this open house if I'm also going to be getting brunch with a friend that morning, or do I need to cut one. Do I need to say, Okay, maybe I can't do a full brunch, but like, let's grab coffee. Or maybe I tell a friend, hey, if you can come to my house. That makes it easier. Or maybe I say, you know what I've got too much. I want to do the open house. I'm just gonna have to go look at Zillow and just kind of deal with that.
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Lia Seth: But it allows me to know, Okay, what is it that is the must do. And what things can I change, alter or back burner or cancel? And then I have to do that same thing at work because I might come online and say, Okay, I've got the mental capacity to answer a couple of emails, go to some meetings, but I can't do everything on my schedule. What can I cut.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah, yeah, I love that you brought that up. It's such a universal thing where we only have so many spoons, so many hours in the day. And yeah, you are ruthless with that. That's amazing.
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Greer Procich: I think it's important to just acknowledge the grief that comes along with coming through that process, though, and acknowledging, hey? I don't have. I can't show up
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Greer Procich: to everything in the way that I want to. That's that's a really really hard thing to come to grips with, as somebody who lives with a disability that you will never be able to show up in the way that you want to. All the time.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah.
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Greer Procich: I think Leah said it really well.
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Danny Gluch: Yeah. And there's a lot of tough decisions and conversations to be had around that, too. Like
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Danny Gluch: those are not things that we get a lot of opportunities to do, and
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Danny Gluch: it's hard because you only get better with them at practice. And
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Danny Gluch: you know, I imagine you're very good at those, Leah.
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Danny Gluch: All right. Any last thoughts as we wrap up on handling the unpredictability, the
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Danny Gluch: loss of control around your disability and work.
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Danny Gluch: any positive hopes, thoughts for either professionals who are wanting to help their their employees, who are experiencing disabilities, or those who are maybe unexpectedly experiencing disabilities, or have been doing this for a long time any any thoughts, words of encouragement.
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Danny Gluch: Kasha.
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Cacha Dora: There is power in the self check-in
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Cacha Dora: in being able to talk to yourself. Listen to yourself, feel things out for yourself. Because you'll
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Cacha Dora: you need to have some level of self awareness to be able to know where your limits are. Kind of going back to Leah, talking about her boundaries as well like those boundaries that she sets, and her priorities that she's setting
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Cacha Dora: we have to know those things for ourselves, and no one can set them for us.
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Cacha Dora: The system will try. That's that's
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Cacha Dora: just the the way of things. But I think it's important, and there's so much like you get a lot of confidence. There's a lot of self power that comes from knowing what you can and can't do and what you can and won't do. And there's a difference between that can and can't and can and won't
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Cacha Dora: so that would be the thing I would do, because, being confidently advocating for myself. And maybe I'm you know, very lucky and working in in places where I've been very supported. But people will listen because
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Cacha Dora: you're not coming from a place of temerity.
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Cacha Dora: And I think that that helps.
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Greer Procich: What does that word mean? Hi.
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Cacha Dora: Hi, like being timid like coming from a place of like meekness if you will. Yeah.
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Greer Procich: Okay, perfect thanks for the definition. Our Encyclopedia Kasha.
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Cacha Dora: I was called that at school.
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Cacha Dora: That's not a joke.
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Greer Procich: If the shoe fits.
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Cacha Dora: I'm not blushing. You are.
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Megan Rees: I'm glad you brought that last part up, Danny, about like what people who are managing people could be doing. And you know, cautious, started to touch on this. But
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Megan Rees: you know I don't want managers to be therapists. Thank you. That's why I'm here. But if someone says something to you like I can't focus on this right now, or I, you know, can't come in right now, like I have whatever. Just believe them
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Megan Rees: like. If if you just start from a place of believing somebody when they're like, I can't do this or I don't have this ability to do this today or whatever, and you know, like trust, that the person like. 1st of all, it's a hard thing for them to say to you, so please acknowledge that, and then, you know, trust that they want to do a good job. They want to get their job done. They want to do the work. They want to be
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Megan Rees: good team member, but if they have limitations and they're telling you about them in the moment, just believe them.
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Danny Gluch: Wow, that's so important.
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Greer Procich: Hard, yes.
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Danny Gluch: I think that's come up in every panel we've done so. Listen up, managers.
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Danny Gluch: Just believe people, Leah Greer, any last words.
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Lia Seth: I think just I mean, everyone's already talked about like acknowledge the grief. The grief will be there. There will be bad days, and, like, Kasha said. You don't want to go full toxic positivity and pretend that it doesn't exist. But
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Lia Seth: you know, just like the the good days don't negate the bad ones. The bad days also don't negate the good ones. You can still have good days. You can still have
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Lia Seth: joy and good experiences. Even if things are unpredictable or hard or unstable. I've definitely had complete crash out days where I'm just like on the floor under my desk, like moaning in pain. But I've had days where I get so much stuff done. And I, you know, finish my day, and I'm like I was so productive, and I'm great at my job, and I rule, and those can both exist in the same week.
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Lia Seth: So I think if if it's new to you and you're dealing with this unpredictability or a new condition. It's not always going to be terrible. It may be terrible some days, but not every day.
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Greer Procich: And find your community on the days when it's terrible.
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Greer Procich: That would be. My entire addition to this
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Greer Procich: final conversation is, Find your community.
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Greer Procich: I am very grateful and lucky and appreciative to have these people on this call in my community to be able to call on on days when I am not feeling like I can show up. And so that's been frankly life changing to be able to have a set of individuals who allow me to show up in the way that I have the spoons to show up for. And believe me, and not only believe me, but say, Okay, how can I support you.
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Greer Procich: So if you're going through this, if you're navigating something like this, find your community.
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Danny Gluch: Absolutely
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Danny Gluch: well. Thank you all for sharing. Thank you all for listening. Please find all of the links in the show notes like subscribe. Leave a 5 Star review. Share this with anyone who you think could use it.
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Danny Gluch: and be sure to listen to all of the other panels that we have on our disability initiative. Thank you all very much.
